Basic understanding of PVP & the Reasons it wont thrive here!

OK so if I am wrong and this game somehow becomes great for PVP, i will eat my words and bow my head in defeat!

First of all the greatest thing about PVP in this game is you have to flag yourself for it, which means you have no one to blame but yourself if you die and lose stuff!

When you do flag for pvp don't go into it at a low level the results are bad for you!

PVP = Player Vs. Player, there is nothing more intelligent than a real live person, there is no AI out there that can make choices as a real player does, close maybe but no cigar for AI.
Real people can make random choices in a PVP situation that can throw off what you expect from NPC's
Real people can hunt you down constantly in a PVP environment, they stop when they realize they cant at this moment, but don't be surprised if somewhere down the line, they find you and then kill you!

Practice makes perfect!

When in PVP choose your battles wisely (unfortunately there is no marker to let someone know how much higher level they are from you!) heres a hint if they have more than 2 gms they are probably higher than the guy that has 0 gms (common sense)

Don't expect to go into a PVP zone as a noob PVP and expect to win lots of battles (its quite the opposite)

Find some friends and go practice PVP with each other before you throw that super hero cape on!

In PVP you will lose stuff (a lot of stuff) get used to it and prepare by not taking everything you own that is awesome into the PVP realm.

Have back up gear in your bank! (you will need it i promise)

Observe the PVP people you will be running around with, know their weaknesses and strengths and capitalize on it! By using your buffs and strengths against theirs, or even your builds. ( have a deck made for them particularly)

If you constantly complain about PVPrs and what they do and then decide to go into PVP Know there will be a target on your back! Someone will eventually come across your character and give you "some stick time!"

Understand that PVP is not for everyone! Also understand that others love PVP as much as you hate it! We all have a right to what we like and don't like!

Most PVPrs are Competitors its not the fight, but the challenge of the fight!

There are those that prey on the weak, but then there are those that prey upon the ones that prey upon the weak as well! (personal note - Those are the ones i love to give dirt naps to the most!)

You cant be a bad ass if your stealing a lollipop from a baby, quite the opposite! There are a few other choice words i could use for those types, but it would be a guaranteed ban in these forums!

Did i mention practice makes perfect? ok yes i did!

Now comes the downside of PVP in this game...........( i hope they prove me wrong!)

There are too many people that just want everything handed to them (main reason in my opinion<--notice i said MY OPINION!!!)

People get mad when they lose stuff to another person more often than losing to an Npc. The only difference i can see here is a person can flaunt what they did to you but hey "Sticks and Stones" right??? Most people don't realize that the people that do that in front of others are only painting a target on their back from the one person they didn't realize was watching them!

Half of the PVP people would gladly go kill someone that just ganked you! Instead of making enemies of PVP by typing degrading stuff about PVP in general, make friends with them so you have some back up and initiate some "stick time" of your own!

Personally most PVP people don't want people in PVP that whine or complain, and when people do they are just feeding into the satisfaction of the PVP that just killed them. (don't add fuel to the fire! There will be a time when you can exact revenge on them!)

The only reward for PVP is full loot of their victim and some basic rights as a PVPr to play the game how they want too! Exactly how NON PVP want to play their game!

I think a lot of PVP would also like to have some sort of leader board for their characters (titles would be an excellent start.) IE "the vile, "the merchant of death"/ "The honorable", "The Great" etc....

there should be a title or color that separates the bad from the good, then we would know who to fight and be rewarded for good or evil types! (UO had, blue - Grey - Red) blue being the ones who killed off evil and red the ones who ganked and killed off good etc.. grey on the fence. At least at that moment i knew who i should kill or not!

Personally i don't see a problem with a non PVP going into a PVP zone and being put into their own instances with the same level, and amount of mobs (makes some of those mobs adv. lvl 70-80 to make up for what would be in there if in PVP mode against other PVP! Resources could be the same as well.)

I see a lot of people complaining about PVP, the only reasoning i can tell is that they are afraid to lose stuff or die over and over. If someone feels this way then they probably should not be PVP period.

I keep hearing "consequences of your actions" over and over by RG. DS, So my question to @Lord British and @DarkStarr is why not come up with a Blue, Grey and Red system, and titles? Consequences would be a blue killing off a Red or vice versus! Guards killing you when you come in town because your red or blue depending on what type of town you were in.

Those were true consequences back in the day (we have lost that now a days)

I don't see this game being a great game for PVP people and people that like challenges/competition, because there is none at the moment. Sure we have player arenas and stuff like that, but there is really nothing to shoot for in them (same people winning most of time) its boring Its like a "Zombie" land, go here, then go here, then go here, then go here......party up with some friends, then go here and here and here......

To me this game seems like a Dress up game, and social network ( A Sims type game/w Facebook attachment) all that is good but i would like to have a good game then get into the social genre of it.

I don't see PVP thriving in this game with the way things are now, and the people that are getting most of the attention by the designers (this is just my observation) This game could be so much better! Give bigger and better rewards for different things, reward one player for killing another, let the Non pvp people play their game (going into an instance instead of having to go into PVP in certain scenes)

Reduce number of skills per person so everyone cant be everything. As long as one person can do everything, there is no need for the others in the game. (all this would make sense if it was a single player game but its not)

Bottom line is i would love to see everyone enjoying their game PVP or Non PVP, i would be more apt to backing this game more, and more as would others i think.

Ok if you made it this far without skimming this wall of writing, it means your actually trying to understand, kudos to you!

Disclaimer - My personal views upon observation and actively playing the game from day one!

 

Why no red/grey/blue system for this game... well. I personally would prefer there not to be titles that can be applied to players identifying them all to other players on the spot. (Ted bundy was totally blue! But yea... dont judge a book by its covee, big mistake!) The red/grey/blue system was a bit immersion breaking. To oversimplistic. So i looted a guy, robbed someone, or did some other naughty thing. I personally think that if you didnt check the town crier or witness the crime then thats your loss if a bounty on my head shows up and you didnt collect my head. I would rather players have to do some real detective work before they can charge me with a crime.

 

On the flip side of Robby's posting, i would be glad to collect a bounty on someones head based on word of mouth only! Im still getting paid for the hit!

This would also make those that are not so honorable, a little more wary of being so dishonorable or murderous to others. In the end im still getting paid and it doesn't mean someone cant take a hit out on me either! (im good with that) People would think before they decide PK someone, some of us may just make a good living out of being a murderer ourselves! (gives people reasons to PVP in the first place, and reap some sort of reward in the process.

My hit would be like this "if you want so and so killed and hes high level you will pay me 5 to 10k to do it or more depending, i would collect the bounty and whatever the Oracle decides to give me! Payment would be up front. If i didn't complete the mission and ran with the money, you can find another hitman to take me out constantly until i rage quit, or i put a bounty on you Its called "Crafting" my craft would be death! Trust me if that person was high level, and i knew i couldnt do it myself, i would get my boys together and we would split the money its called "business" as usual.

In the end it gives us a reason to PVP in the first place.

 

Don't forget @Chris and @DarkStarr mentioned during the telethon that there is a BIG PvP surprise coming at launch. I am envisioning something like "The Purge", but who knows...they haven't even told @Lord British

 

Having lost 90% of my fights, and i do fight pvp as often as i can.. i have never lost an item. I dont know where you get your information from.

Ps : .come fight me , im not really good at adv lvl 84. And am always flagged

 

Also it would be great if you killed someone and choices popped up depending on the circumstances. Like 'this player has a bounty on their head, collect bounty choice shows up.

Edit

And I'd say anyone could be wrong on most things in this game. It is subject to change from feedback and dev choices at any time. Feedback is very important. Devs are working on getting things fun and improving the experience for players. So how it is now doesn't mean it's done on the PvP system or any system in the game.

 

A BIG PvP surprise at launch?
Hm....
Hopefully full loot zones. Or some sort of competitive dungeon crawl based pvp where you all compete to finishing dungeon and unlocking the treasure chest at the bottom of dungeon. I like the idea of a few groups of rival pirates fighting over the chest of gold they found on the map >=-P
In ultima online I was always wishing that while doing a treasure map that someone else was looking for the same treasure and I would have to kill them to take all.

 

I don't even understand what your talking about here, if you are killed in PVP, you lose stuff to the killer Unless you pay the ransom. if you don't pay the ransom you lose stuff no matter how minute, but based on your gold in game and the items you bring into PVP, you may not even buy them back. A lot of the times I don't pay the ransom myself, since the stuff I take into PVP can be replaced if needed. Sometimes when you kill me and your not a jerk, ill just give you everything I have on me ( except my gold since we cant bank that yet) to give you a sense of true PVP. Personally I would like to pick and choose what I want of your body not what the Oracle deems I should get ( of course not the stuff you paid for out of the add on store ). I'm used to Full loot PVP, which is what I don't like about this pvp set up we have here. I know what to take and what not to take into battle, I know when to bring back up and when I don't need it.

If your losing 90% of your fights I would suggest you train more or change up your decks. Or not pick a fight you know you cant win (or bring back up). Knowing when to fight and when to run is half the battle of PVP. Know your limits and skill sets against another. If you enjoy the 90% losses, then more power to you its a great way to learn what not to do next time. There are arenas and competitions for that type of PVP, I prefer no rules.

PS. I'm not going to set a place and time to kill someone, or even accept an invitation to, I may run by you and ignore you or I may attack! You never know? I don't kill just to kill. There has got to be reason behind why I do kill. Rolling up on some noob is not fun or challenging to me, rolling up on someone that is challenging is fun! I wont offer an invitation, I will just do it and when they least expect it! I may win or lose, it doesn't matter to me at all.

 

@Cordelayne, any new news on this?

 

Yep, spoiler below:

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/22/s...ntering-pay-to-win-and-the-state-of-the-game/

 

I think our problem is that sota is not developed for pvp but is an rpg with pvp possibilities.
So you have a lot of things that make sense in an PVE setting, balances and gear is not pure set up to work for pvp, added the pesky rpg content on top.
Kinda puzzles me why you complain though, Sota is not advertised as pvp heavy gam but an game where PvP is possible.

 

You are correct, it is not currently advertised as pvp, but it was in the beginning. Hence some of us look forward to meaningful pvp. Lots I could post about this but it just derails lol.

 

Ive been here since day 1 and ive listened to all the talk about pvp and i keep my fingers crossed, that it does get better but it looks pretty bleak for this game, coming from uo before tram, im here because richard garriott designed it. I loved uo pre tram, amd i figured this game would be just as good, to me it id not as enjoyable as i thought it would be. This whole game is set up like a single player game,everyone can be everything. Understandable in a single player environment! No so much for a multiplayer one. I honestly do not neef anyone else i this game for anything since i can do it myself. This is what botherse tje most the fact that i dont need other players, so why even play with them? Granted some may like this game, crafters and dancing emote ninjas. Enjoy it as you will personallty i will look for something
Else. When i do find it, ill say "your wecome for my financial support for your game". No harm done, i probably wont spen the stupid amount i spent on this game ever again on a game. Lesson learned!

 

Everyone can be everything to an degree, as higher you get in skills as harder it becomes to maintain everything, specialist is limited to two.

So very realistic, I am very good with wood in rl and decent with metal workings but to become super in metal i would have to invest time i do not have (because, sleeping, eating and so on)

For the game, again you can be self sufficient but you can not exell in everything (or you have to grind 24/7)

I was here from day one too and i very much remember that from the start there was no talk about "total pvp" options, but a lot of people who claimed Lord British said so (he statet very official he did not say so).

Be realistic, you need to develope two games packed into one to allow an serious pvp setting because balancing needs to be done pvp and pve, an fighting systhem that takes ointo account lagg because you do not work with player/mob on serverv so two seperate games alltogether.

Expecting that to come to reality is not realistic at all.

Beside that the pvp group (that wants an complete pvp setting with full loot and all) is to small to really make it reality, to many in sota do have jobs in RL and want some fun times and social interaction (not on the tip of an sword) and too much pvp possibilities does attract the trolls, naturally.

My experience is that pvp does not fit into games that have too much RPG content, arena style games do work best for that, RPG and PvP do mix like water and oil because PvP build min max, RPG builds of chard do not (and therefore differ, have flaws (intentional)

I plaz an ranger with bow leather and some taming thrown in, so poor pvp toon, great rpg toon.

With PvP an vital part of the game (in so faar as you are loosing an certain percentage of the content if you do not play pvp) we end with cookie cutter toons who all min max the same stats and skills to be viable pvp fighters, that is not an opinion but an mathematical fact (exept you play pvp to loose a lot)

So if you back an game where rpg is to be expected you should consider if itis realistic to do so.

Every toon but an heavy hitter with high ac and resist WILL loose more often than not, so you end with very similar toons, either an melee or an shielded caster, nothing else and that is an poor base for RPG

Your expectations and what was advertised is not in synch.

 

The flagging needs to be revisited in my opinion. When I want to flag for PVP, I always gotta go to the oracle and remove my protection. Another player who just happens to be in the same scene as me, can just flag off of me and even though they've been in the scene flagged as non - pvp. . they are all of a sudden able to attack me, which gives them the advantage over me because I wasn't able to attack them until they flagged. This game punishes people who flag at the oracle in that manner. I would make people have to flag in the same way at the oracle if it were me, then there'd be no people "sneak flagging" in order to get an advantage over you any more.

 

Agreed.

 

A big issue impacting PvP in this game is the central design around being either a single player or multiplayer experience at the user's choosing. The PvE field is designed around players having the ability to train a lot of skills for resists and circumventing opponent resists. Any balancing of skill allocation for PvP would destroy that PvE dynamic and require a complete overhaul to make it solo-player friendly again.

I do also find the characterization of MOST pvpers to be quite optimistic. My experience is that most PvP players are predators that want to feast upon the tears of the inferior and are prone to running away when faced with a challenge and that the noble challenge seekers are far more rare.

Most players are not going to go for full loot. Most players aren't even up to the Price of the Oracle as it stands now. This is evidenced by the lack of PvP players found in general and the ghost-zones which comprise the ruins and shardfalls. The game wanted to capture a mix between the classic Ultimas and the Ultima Online experience. Those are very different playstyles, especially if one harkens back to before the felucca/trammel split. Post-split UO is much closer to what we see here.

The only real path forward for thriving PvP is to do as so many other titles have done and make it essentially a separate mode of the game. Which could be fun. I'd love to see guild battles for control over special zones. King of the Hill, Hold the Keep, Capture the McGuffin zones would be cool. The zone would fly your heraldry with a little icon over it when your guild was in possession. Mobs would be passive to your own members while you hold it. In that vein, even non-pvp members of your guild might be invested in supporting your fighters so they could get easy access to resource rich environs and create a whole meta-game around a supply chain for consumables and replacement arms and armors. Maybe the Keep you hold has a +25 skill smithy that is the envy of crafters the world over. Maybe the Tailoring station has a special pattern that can only be applied to armor by members of the guild that own it. That is how you not only invigorate PvP play and give out bragging rights, but also get non-PvP players interested in the state of PvP.

 

So, has that been revealed yet?

 

Was the big surprise not the new shardfall?

 

Um, the new shardfall perhaps .