a Glyph Deck System

I think that without these points involved in the system, the Glyph system is essentially not a card system in any way, except for the fact that what you can do next is randomized. Feedback/criticism welcome

1. minimum 25-30 cards for a deck
2. glyphs are discarded after use into a 'used pile' and cannot be used again until you sleep/rest
3. when you're out of glyphs you can still cast spells/abilities, with a penalty
4. need to sleep/rest for 1-2 min at a campfire/bedroll, or 10 seconds at an inn to get your deck back - or if you have a spell that allows you to dig into your used pile to refresh cards
5. instead of resting, a player can switch to a fresh deck that hasn't been used up sort of like equipping a new spell book
6. players can choose from 200+ spells/abilities (or an appropriate number to make deck diversity work) - with wider selections each expansion

 

It is my understanding it is not meant to be a card system, it's a deck of abilities of which you can only access some abilities some of the time depending on your situation (what's available to you). I recall devs (Chris?) saying they wish they had never said deck to refer to glyphs/abilities. I wouldn't make my focus on the combat as how to make it seem more like a card game.

But for feedback:
1. Experimentation I guess. Currently going below the minimum = slugs.
2. This is how one would think of a deck of cards. If spells were one-cast (as some games are) perhaps that makes sense, but saying that once you slash your sword at someone you can't slash again until you've slept seems odd. I would hate needing to sleep every 30 attacks, I don't see how this makes combat more fun or the point of it.
3. see 2.
4. see 2.
5. This is intriguing, I didn't read 5 before posting my response to 2-4. Of course glyphs are not all spells, many of them are melee attacks. I still think I prefer a rotating deck of abilities, not a finite deck of cards.
6. They'll have lots of spells/abilities but I haven't counted. I'm sure they'll have an appropriate number of abilities.

 

When I first heard of the "Card" glyph system I was optimistic. That you've pointed out Chris regrets referring to it as a card system, I have to say I'm now a bit worried, like other skeptics but, because of the word "Glyph" rather than because of the word "Card".

I suppose I don't see the point of using a half-baked card system. It's just a randomized hotbar really.

I guess we are still in alpha though, so will see what the glyph concept comes out to be.

 

Cards, glyphs, decks and slugs... this is talk about combat in Shroud?

Good grief. I simply don't like the system that is being developed.

 

The idea of the current skill system is to represent the chaos of live combat in a new and interesting way. The basic concept being that what skills you are trained in will occur to you in a semi random order, and will not all be available at all moments of a fight. In most "deck" builds, there will be significant repetition of core skill glyphs, so that they are almost always up, and players will have the option of locking "noble" skills into slots that will never move and be always available subject to small penalties and inherent cooldowns.

Since these glyphs are supposed to represent ALL of my combat skills, with the exception of "swing sword", I find the idea of running out of glyphs repugnant. If I had trained myself on a furious battle charge, or a tripping maneuver with a halberd, would I, after 5 or 10 uses, suddenly lose the ability to use these tactics till I had rested? Or be forced to use them at a "out of cards" penalty?

Thus I likewise find the idea of having to rest or switch decks to "reload" repugnant. Am I to have my archer bed down every 20 minutes of gameplay to restock his supply of "called shot" glyphs?

Lastly, while I am all in favor of having diversity of available, competitive ability glyphs, and a wide selection of tactics, I don't think it's fair to saddle the devs with a need for 200+ glyphs in Chapter 1.

 

Is the point of the suggestion to make rest meaningful? I'm sure that rest will help rebuild your focus bar quickly, among other possible things.

The card/glyph system is supposed to be somewhat naturalistic, like Malak is saying. I don't think it was intended to be game-y for the sake of it. The idea was probably taken from the fact that most MMOs have developed a hotbar system, and this is just a way of giving more strategy to that kind of hotbar system, instead of it being about furiously clicking everything you can manage to click at once. There's a lot of 'dumb combat' in MMOs. The main alternative would be to require a lot more twitch action on the part of the player.

I never really liked Vancian magic, though, and wouldn't really like that concept extended into weapon skills.

 

So far the combat system is the one area of the game that I dislike. I'll see how it develops but personally it may end up putting me off playing the game. Perhaps it's because I've become used to how other MMOs work but I found the system cumbersome and difficult, trying to work out what 'card' did what and reacting quickly enough to tap the one that I wanted to use before it disappeared.

Admittedly yesterday was the first time I've played the game, so perhaps the system will grow on me. I do like the random nature of the appearing skills and can see what the end result is aiming for - it's partly the look of the glyphs that put me off - even if they aren't supposed to be cards, that is what they look like. Gives the whole nature of combat the feel of playing a board game, and I don't want that in an MMO/ RPG.

However, I do like the idea of the way the skill tree can develop and build. Sadly no idea how the system could develop into something that I'd like (I probably haven't played enough yet) - the locking of slots sounds good though - once I can work out how to do that, maybe I'll be happier with the feel of the combat. Anyway, just my initial thoughts, on an area that seems the only downside to what is looking like a great game.

 

1. I've always liked Vancian magic, and am biased towards any DnD-like system.

2. I don't yet see value in Glyphs being used to simulate the memory capabilities of my character, (though it does appear effective in this regard). However, I did previously see Glyphs as a way to incorporate some of my favorite things about a card games into the game in a new way. Now that I know a card game isn't what the devs had in mind, I'm trying my best to find reasons to be interested in the Glyph system.

3. I found myself furiously clicking everything I could manage to click at once in the last release (when in a tough fight and in desperate need to click a damage spell before it vanished from my hotbar).

It was really tough to be involved in combat without staring at my hotbar constantly. I often ran into trees while sidestepping and staring at my hotbar waiting for the right symbol to appear. The minimalist UI that the developers have proposed has become the biggest in-your-face UI you can squeeze into 5% of screen real-estate. I had to look at it more than my surroundings far more than I ever look at a WoW hotbar.

Memorizing the glyph icons is very essential to mastering the random hotbar, and when they are relocating themselves constantly, it's a steeper learning curve. I found that it simulated the memory failings of my character (multiplied by my own memory failings) -- Rather than just my character.

I'm not exactly sure how Glyphs reduce the mash by breaking standard rotation. Maybe you mean the system breaks rotation?

4. Giving value to rest is part of it. Without Vancian-styled magic and skills though, I'm not sure it's all that useful. Personally liked the resting system in DAOC but, I don't know how popular that is with others and wouldn't venture to guess.

Thanks for your comments.

 

That sure sounds quite 'interesting'

 

The need to sleep to refresh the glyph pool lost my interest.

Also, I got lost in the idea about when being out of glyphs you can still cast. I didn't understand how we would cast if all glyphs had been used and no glyphs were appearing?