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Air School unbearable fizzle chance

Discussion in 'Release 49 Feedback Forum' started by Antrax Artek, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    Greetings,

    Usually i don't like coming here and pretend something but i'm fighting with this issue from my first day in SotA.

    Air School magic fizzle chance is objectively exaggerated, i tested it with a full cloth carapacian set+wand+shield and while moving i'm still getting around 30% failure using chainlighting.
    A similar situation can be noticed while using weapons in full cloth set, at this point i'm wondering why air school have to be like that?
    Others schools, like death for example has much less fizzle chance and the skill effect is a 100% heal/damage so i don't think air is penalized for the stun chance which is much less dangerous than health transfer. Another example is Chaos Magic, it's much easier than air to cast (loading tip says it's the hardest one to cast) so i really think there is something wrong.

    With the exaggerated fizzles we're missing some of best combo/classes like shamans ,druids or inspired character, for example the classic Thor "the thundergod" (Hammer+heavy armor+Air).
    Talking in D&D terms, classes with the control of natural elements often uses medium armor+shield+weapon as favorite combo despite to classes like necromancers, sorcerers or mages which often are forced to a full cloth armor set.
    In my opinion all elemental schools must have less fizzle chance than magic schools. Maybe that would be a good inspiration source for new changes adding fizzle reduction if specialized in elemental mastery.

    What i'm asking to @Chris is to reduce the fizzle chance of air school magic to help the building of new classes and roles in game.

    Air magic is at the moment the hardest school to cast in game.

     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  2. zyxe

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    I feel like the fizzle chance is just there to waste my time, especially with air magic. I don't see any usefulness, it doesn't feel like it enhances my choices and most of the time the math vs. experience doesn't seem to work out on the fizzle chance anyway (try something with 30% chance of success that fizzles 9-11 times in a row repeatedly and you'll find bad programming).
     
  3. Stundorn

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    Shield?

    Classes?
     
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  4. Toadster

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    Air was wonderful (too wonderful, I guess) when I started and I so wanted to be a polearm air mage. But unfortunately air had two major nerf hammers hit in just a short time. Chris must have been watching ‘The walking Dead’ at that time and Completely pulverized the air skull with the nerf hammer just to make sure it never got back up.

    First was stunn... with groups of 8 spamming discharge and chainlightning in order to keep mobs from ever moving while pounding them to oblivion.

    Second was stun in PVP... when the template of the day was perma stunning players with air.

    After that it had absolutely no use in PVE, it has the highest fizzle of all the trees, the stun barely lasts long enough to cast the next spell, and it does the least amount of damage

    Maybe one day it will be resurrected, but I doubt it.
     
  5. Stundorn

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    Air is my 1st school.
    Storm and Water mage.

    I just have fizzle if i run.
    Deathshield fizzles also often like CL.
     
  6. Antrax Artek

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    Agree, but compared to air shield.
     
  7. Stundorn

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    Dont know, haven't enough focus to use it.
    And dont pvp until where it is used most of the time i guess.
     
  8. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    I use leather, and sometimes even bone armor, and I use Air spells all days (is my highest magic school). Even with 25-30% CL fizzle I just fail 1/4 spells aprox, I don't think thats too bad tbh. There is a reason behind the fizzle mechanic.

    Another point to note is that you are using shield. I would not like to see offensive mages using shield, it looks really unbalanced and OP for some people. For healers is not bad, like a buffer/healer (with dig in and testudo), it works and I did not hear issues with fizzle. This is just my opinion.

    CL/lighting is one of the most used and useful spells in pve. I use all the time, and with my skill and attunement I have 6.5 seconds stuns in pve :)

    When we talk about these things its important to talk about our own experience, I know lot of people using Air like in the past. The nerf was needed, CL was broken for long time.
     
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  9. Toadster

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    Guess it depends on what you fight and how you fdo get it. With the fizzle, low dmg and focus cost air is completely underpowered compared to other trees.
     
  10. eli

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    Yup CL is the whole reason i'm able to solo rooms in the rise (adv 87 mage). the couple seconds of relief you get to heal yourself, especially if you stun your target in an aoe field, is crucial. FWIW I do it with a chain chest (and cloth everything else).

    If you're not finding CL useful, perhaps you use it while moving? standing still with a chainmail chest piece and 1H polearm, my success chance is 95%

    with full cloth, a shield (+10% fizzle chance for a reason), i am able to get 91% success chance /while moving/ 100% while stationary (which takes a fraction of a second to do)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  11. danjacobsmith

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    Personally I'd love to see them create a global spell variable and use that instead of fizzle chance. Wear plate chest for instance (-15 percent spell effect), boots (-10 percent spell effect).

    I think going with a spell effect modifier would be much more balanced than fizzle chance. Sure we can keep fizzle chance to some extent, but a global spell modifier would be more balanced.

    Now you can wear full plate and a shield and cast, but your spell effects might be halved. (Just like a shadow knight compared to a mage for example).
     
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  12. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    25% fizzle is high? I don't feel the same, and 6.5 secsons stun in pve works like a charm. Stuns = dmg avoidance, using everytime I solo.
     
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  13. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    Good example.
     
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  14. Stundorn

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    I use CL like a debuff and is in a Slot with fireflys and blind.
     
  15. Antrax Artek

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    I'll try to answer to all in one reply.

    @Rada Torment Indeed many confirmed that the fizzle chance nerfing is pretty unuseful, who want permastun in pvm and use a weapon can still do that with no problem just staying on place, so if this exaggerated fizzle chance is here to stop ppl from using it in pvm/control points this is really the wrong way. I really cannot see the correlation with defense and stun chance, sounds like if they're using light armor and 2 wands they cannot permastun mobs waves anymore, and obviously is not like that.
    Atleast if they also use weapon skills in deck with air the chance to permastun something is drastically reduced, a full cloth air mage atm can still permastun mobs with no problem.

    I'm wondering why strongest aoe pvm magic trees like fire and death using shields can be used while running with near no penalty.
    Chainlighting compared to fireball for example have a big fizzle difference, i'm not comparing with deathfield and ring of fire cause they have to be casted while standing on place ( and deathfield has still a better chance).
    The stun chance reduction instead of increasing air fizzle chance would have solved the real problem.

    @eli I really doubt CL is a necessary skill for pvm, or atleast i never used it in pvm and i can still clean any zones in game like the rise mages room and control points, and remember, chris will not allows anymore in future heavy chest rest cloth users.

    @Stundorn The most important issue is in pvp, where you have always to run and any player without full cloth armor+2 wands too often miss their role of aoe dps as air mages cause the fizzle chance is unbearable, in pvp every second is important.
    Furthermore in terms of roleplaying is just not good that elemental masters like druids, nature clerics and shamans cannot combine the air magic school with a shield and medium armor (bone,leather,chainmail)

    This is not a bad idea.
     
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  16. Violet Ronso

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    I wear full 4 Pieces bone armor (Chest, Gloves, Legs and Boots) with a no fizzle rate Cabalist hood, and a Staff. Chain Lightning has a 91% chance to hit when I am running, 100% when not. I think you might want to increase things like
    A. The skills level : Fizzle rate goes down with level up, if I am not mistaken, so obviously if your chain lightning is currently at 20 compared to my 80, you might have bigger of an issue)
    B. Follow Through Glyph in Focus tree : pretty straight forward, lower fizzle rate on all spells, so worth it!
    C. Attunement : I think this comes into play for fizzle but I can't be 100% certain... 1 thing it does affect is damage, so if you feel like damage is lack luster, get attunement up!

    Chain Lightning is my only effective multi-target spell which isnt an AoE, this means I can hit targets I couldnt hit if they run out of my Areas without having to pick him out, and this is a great argument for it. ALSO even if the tooltip doesnt mention it for CL, it applies the -10 Air resistance as much as regular Lightning does, so multiple casts will result in higher damage also!

    I feel like SotA gives us the tools to make things work, and you just have to chose the right tool for the right job! Don't do using a drill to put a nail in your wall, it will work, but its gonna be a bit more complicated, and might damage your drill!
     
  17. Antrax Artek

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    Maybe you missed the point, are you using a shield? Anyway my CL is lvl 99 and follow through 80.
    I still cannot understand the meaning of the exaggerated fizzle of CL, it doesn't solve anything in tems of pvm if not disadvantaging air mages in pvp, cause they have problems using shield and casting while running.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  18. Violet Ronso

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    So if the shield is stopping you from doing what you want, why use it? This was exactly the goal of my post, mentioning that if something is stopping you, change it. also I don't get your numbers, if I look at items and their fizzle chances, You are Using a wand (-15% Fizzle) a shield (Most I've seen at +10% Fizzle) and full cloth (0% Fizzle) so you would have an effective -5% fizzle compared to everything giving 0...

    I wear 4 Pieces of Bone, Chest (+12%), Legs (+3%), Gloves (+6%) and Boots (+3%), with a staff (-30%) so I'm getting -6% fizzle compared to everything giving 0...

    You are saying you see around 30% fizzle rate while moving, and I see 9% Fizzle rate while moving... so you wanna compare the skills? My CL is lvl 80, 19 points lower than you, and my Follow Through is 80, so same thing as you... how do you explain the difference? Maybe there's something you haven't mentioned? Maybe you aren't looking at the right place? I don't know, but something seems really off considering you should have and easier time casting it and I am having none. I don't see a problem with the fizzle chance, and I don't see issues while running. Maybe you have been using Berserker Stance which increases fizzle chance by 25%? If that would be the case I wouldn't say its a problem with "Limiting Fizzle rates" and more with a bad decision making on skills to complement your play style, otherwise you are using passive stance and that would be completely stupid in combat considering its a PASSIVE stance.

    Anyways I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm seriously trying to figure out what is making it so even with better numbers than me you seem to have 3x more trouble than me doing the same thing, and I would like to figure this out so others who will just take your word don't end up losing faith when these things are 100% doable from where I am standing...
     
  19. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    Tested now, with full leather and bow (same fizzle like shields), I can use my CL without any issues, 24.3% fizzle chance. We really need decrease this or maybe increase the fire/death spells for bow/shield users? Anyway I can't imagine someone expecting to cast all these spells without fizzles while they are running.
     
  20. Antrax Artek

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    Sadly my friend what are you doing is just sharing wrong informations, i just ask you to avoid replies if you are not 100% sure of your data, this is not the goal of the thread, if not please explain this screenshot:
    Full cloth set and shield
    [​IMG]

    @ILLUSIONITE This is feedback forum, and this is an objective feedback, please don't try to change it, is not good trying to hide a problem like that, i cannot see the goal.

    @Rada Torment also agreeing with you, and i'm not, why others schools can and air not? I can cast a fireball with no problem running with a shield but i can't cast chainlighting. And yes 24.3% fizzle while standing is unbearable, especially in a party vs party pvp situation.
    Again please, try to analyze this in roleplaying and pvp perspectives.
    As i already said, in pvm the fizzle chance is not much important, anyone can use it with no problem while standing on place without getting killed trying to cast it with 7 failures on 10 attempts (this was the result of last test i did trying to cast it while running).
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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