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Air School unbearable fizzle chance

Discussion in 'Release 49 Feedback Forum' started by Antrax Artek, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    @Antrax Artek
    I understand well and some combinations are just not that good and unbalanced or just "not that good".
    I feel for you as i for myself use a semi optimal setting, but to RP my "archetype" of a Storm and Frost mage is more important.
    I favored Water as my main school and i tried the Ice Staff (pattern on a +12 Tempestry), but Sword and Wand or Shield work better for me and i'm happy awaiting the Ice Sword and Wand to use the patterns on my weapons.
    I additionally use Sun and Moon to debuff, CC and/or AoE (Meteors).
    I cannot do all with this and for pvp i would need some Chaos, but this is far in the future for me, if ever.

    Lets hope Chris comes up continuously with skill system improvements if not <<hard caps and tree limitations>>
    :D
     
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  2. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Air magic used to be pretty decent back in the day.

    Since persistence we've seen a ramp of of reagent costs, focus costs, and burn rate of reagents, an increase in fizzle chance and a reduction in damage and a reduction in stun chance.
    I don't think its necessary either. If you're wearing full cloth armor I don't think you should fizzle anything.

    For me at least, air magic has been nerfed beyond any pve usefulness.
     
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  3. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    24% Fizzles=24% chance to have issues, atleast while pvping.
     
  4. Violet Ronso

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    Ok so to continue on what I was saying, I would love it if you could provide a bit of info on your picture so we can figure out your outrageous fizzle rate compared to mine.
    1. What is that buff after your devotionals but before strength of the earth? (Really cant zoom enough without losing too much quality to figure that one out comparing it to my glyphs, sorry about that one).
    2. What is the fizzle rate on your gear piece by piece? You say I am providing false information that I am not sure of with my data, but If I take every piece of information you give me and compare it with the information the game provides me, My numbers should be right, but we never know, like I said I might be missing pertinent information that you haven't provided me...
    3. Care to explain "Near 30%" with 21% fizzle rate on your spell, after going to the "Sadly my friend what are you doing is just sharing wrong information" that you just accused me of? You are simply accusing me of providing false info after doing it yourself, and don't provide anything extra to explain that higher fizzle rate...

    Now just to help out with the discussion and figure out your issue here, I will provide my own pictures with my numbers... ohhh and by the way, proof in pictures below, but my fizzle rate on the same "Tier" of spells (Chain Lightning is Tier 3 if we ignore gusts "Intro" tier), but death field and fire ring do have a higher fizzle rate than chain lightning for me, so once again, sorry I'm going against your "This should be buffed because it doesn't work like I would like it to" thread, but like I mentionned I'm trying to find the explanation to our noticeable differences in success chance

    [​IMG]

    Here is the Imgur album for the remaining pictures : https://imgur.com/a/Q6ZqF
     
  5. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    I make it super simple, no devotionals buff, 0% fizzle chance on gear, put a shield up with a wand and send us again a screenshot.
    I don't want to be unpleasant but, as i already said this is the feedback forum and the op says: Full cloth (or any other armor)+Shield+wand has an exaggerated fizzle chance, the rest is superfluous. We're asking this for a solution and not to discuss about it and different point of views if not objective one.
    The buff you mentioned is "daring adventurer", it's the bonus exp while pvp flagged.
    PS: Try again to look at the screenshot, i shared for error the link of preview instead the source.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  6. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    What do you mean the rest is superflous??? You are saying something is wrong with said build, I'm actively trying to figure it out with you? I'm trying to figure out what could explain that difference in our fizzle rate when we have nearly the same numbers which makes no sense... I've provided as much information to figure this out, yet you keep avoiding it. Yes it is a feedback forum, But I could go into passive stance, yell " I have a 80%Fizzle chance with no gear on fix this" but not tell anyone I have that passive stance on, and then all it does is provide feedback with terribly wrong information.

    Also what makes you decide that since it is the feedback forum, I can not come in and try to shed some light on these numbers that look so wrong? I just don't understand why saying "This is wrong fix it" is allowed but "Hey lets compare numbers and see if it isnt maybe a bug or maybe you are doing something special to explain those numbers" isn't allowed here? Im not providing a point of view I'm actively trying to figure out the problem and figure out if it deserves to be feedback or bug.

    anyways do what you want, keep on saying my active problem solving mindset is just wrong, I'll just keep on thinking you are hiding information to have the devs give you an edge in PVP (as this is currently the only reasonable explanation to you not wanting to actively figuring out where the issue comes from).

    Also, I will go and get myself a shield and full cloth and test out this set myself, maybe then I'll find out its a bug and actually help out the devs instead of just telling them to lower the fizzle rate when it might just be a bug with shields...
     
  7. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    I'm trying exactly to avoid this to be convert in a personal discussion, i think is at the evidence of all you're still trying to compare a full bone set+1 cloth+staff with full cloth+wand+shield. Until you don't understand this particular any discussion is superfluous.
    Don't try to be salty with me, this is not the correct behavior and it simply makes you arrogant while you're wrong too.
    As developers I would find difficult to read a thread where someone is arguing a personal discussion, and this is why i was trying to make it simple and easy instead of continue to arguing with you, considering that you're still trying to compare bone+staff standing with cloth+wand+shield while running.
    You're talking about totally different situations, i invite you again to equip cloth+wand+shield and share your numbers. I'm pretty sure our numbers will be near the same and there will be nothing else to discuss.

    PS: I already given all informations needed to help devs and other users to understand the problem.
    We was talking about medium armors, weapons or shields combined to air magic, staves were not mentioned.

    Thank you for understanding me and sorry for the sincerity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  8. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    Just to let you know, I was testing running with my staff and bone, the reason I was saying that's what I had on was because our calculated fizzle chance coming from gear should only be giving a 1% fizzle chance difference if all other factors were the same which was where I couldn't understand why yours was jumping so high. Now if you had instead helped out with the issue instead of saying I am not doing exactly like you, we could of figured this out earlier, but here, go see this BUG thread that I just made because I decided to go and do the testing correctly. You will see that it is not an issue with air magic but with the gear affecting the Fizzle chance. ALL MAGIC TREES END UP HAVING THE SAME ISSUE AS THE AIR TREE IN YOUR SITUATION, NOT JUST YOU AND YOUR AIR MAGIC, TRY CASTING RING OF FIRE WITH YOUR SETUP AND YOU WILL SEE THE SAME ABSURD NUMBERS.... The real issue is that gear and the %Fizzle they say they give does not fit, either the math is wrong somewhere, or the math is really something else they don't explain correctly.

    Now just to come back to you saying that I am wrong and that I don't know what I am talking about and that I am salty with you, I am not, I was just trying to figure out where the issue was comming from, trying to look outside the box, and you stayed in that box the whole time saying there was nothing else to see only this small box and its cardboard walls, ignore the fact that the box was open on top with a whole other world to see... Go look at the bug report thread, seriously... IT IS NOT AIR MAGIC NERFS ITS BAD MATH!!!

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...zzle-rates-affected-by-gear-seems-off.108521/
     
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  9. Antrax Artek

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    Finally, now i agree, as i said we was talking about different things. I read your thread, numbers now are the same as tested by me and yes there is something wrong with effective fizzle and calculated fizzle.

    Sorry if i was unpleasant but was really hard explaining what is the real problem without missing the core of the thread, and when i seen you screenshot with bone+staff I was a little irritated and I felt I wasted time explaining the details.

    On the other hand, the main thread was asking about a reduction of air fizzle to make it balanced to other schools and let air users choose to use or not a weapon/shield/medium armor without have this exaggerated impact on fizzle chance. Especially cause the reason of the nerf is simply not effettive, people can still use air in cp while standing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  10. Pawz

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    No one seems to be talking about Air magic being the least expensive magic school to gm. The game has trade offs everywhere.

    Fix Taming! :)
     
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  11. Antrax Artek

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    I would be happy to spend double exp for it but for a worthy school.;)
     
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  12. belijaal

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    @ILLUSIONITE

    Antrax wasn't asking for help with his build or ways to decrease his fizzle rate. You missed the point of the thread completely and this lead to a totally useless discussion between a high end pvp'er who is fully of aware of all the possibilities the game has to offer and someone a lot less experienced using a staff instead of 2 wands.

    Back to the topic:

    The fizzle rate on air magic spells is indeed way too high and should be reduced. The air tree in its current state offers nothing that justifies such a high fizzle rate.

    Some People might think that 10% fizzle while moving isn't that bad or you could just stand still and have no fizzle. Sadly this is not an option if you take pvp as a mage seriously. Fizzling means dying in that case.
     
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  13. Bow Vale

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    Just as an addition.....Blink....Mine is at 94% chance of casting but it feels like about 40-50% in truth, i cant understand how something with only a 6% chance of fizzle, fizzles so much...its like i have the worlds worst luck every time i 'need' it, it fizzles, usually twice! And this is in full leather and not moving.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  14. Violet Ronso

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    And you havent understood the point of what I was saying, I wasnt trying to help him build a deck, I was trying to understand and figure out why on paper we both had the same fizzle modifiers (he had -6% and I had -5% total from gear) and yet he had nearly 20% higher than me on spells. thats where it all went wrong, I was trying to figure out why these things werent didnt make sense, meanwhile you guys thougth I was trying to show Im the best deckbuilder... I've pretty much made my point with my bug report regardless, so this is the last I will do to justify and explain what I was doing, if you keep thinking I'm looking down on you thinking you don't know how deck building works, then too bad and keep ignoring my attempt to help figure out the real issue.
     
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  15. Yakamo LLTS

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    Honestly i never believe any of the percent rates for all schools, it seems just broken. Alot of 95% i fizzle a couple times in a row.
     
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  16. belijaal

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    The real issue and topic of this thread is the high fizzle rate of the air tree. Yet you still keep derailing the thread.

    Nobody thinks you're looking down on anyone or you're trying to show you're the best deckbuilder, that's ridiculous on so many levels.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  17. Emso Boydon

    Emso Boydon Legend of the Hearth

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    I think everyone resolved the topic of this thread thoroughly - and also very entertaining.

    The consensus seems to be, air fizzle - although it seemingly is relatively cheap to skill - is too high at the moment and there is even a bug that can make everything worse. That's a nice result for two pages of dancing around the threads topic, I'd say. It also seems that nobody really was or wanted to be obnoxious. So... nice job, I think?
     
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  18. Toadster

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    What kills CL fizzle is the second hand shield.. which is actually a 25% fizzle bump.
    -10 for the shield
    -15 for second hand use that is jone t a wand


    Add in a 30% fizzle for movement and CL is unplayable.
     
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  19. Barugon

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    It's just a guess but I'm betting that high fizzle is an intentional trade-off for a multi-target, high-damage skill that stuns. ;)
     
  20. belijaal

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    Not a bad guess at all, except it doesn't do high damage.
     
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