Allow a third specialization in a Strategy tree

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetrion, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. Xee

    Xee Avatar

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    I think this is because you are hanging with cookie cutter peeps. I have run pure air mage, pure sun, pure water, pure death as well life. you do require always other options outside of just one school to do everything as you always need heals to keep alive or a heck of a lot of health.

    As to melee, all melee are viable... even with fists. I have even killed a boss with just anks in my hand and wands. you can also solo in cloth just as easy as plate.. you are right most mages will wear heavy to get added protection and HP. some invest heavy to bring fizzle down enough to wear almost full plate yet they are still mages. There is a lot of gear and skills that you can work in to decks to offset your fizzle. As I said most people will see someone doing something and just copy them. this is why the top players keep to themselves their builds. If you download a meter like sota assist etc then you can start to test things on your own. or start to look at all the skills and think about the logic behind each and you will find a lot of neat things people dont think of which are like hidden gems when you find them. The other reason some keep there build to themselves is if too many figure out through testing / math things that could be OP they dont want all to get it or it may be looked at too powerful and nerfed. look at archery... in 6 months there was few to so many people playing that one cookie cutter build... they all copied it. its all math in the end.
     
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  2. Aetrion

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    Yes, clearly the problem is that I spend too much time with people who try to optimize their character, not that optimizing a character always leads to the same few builds.
     
  3. Xee

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    well I dont know what to say to change your mind, that was all I could come up with as the reason you think there is only a few viable options. Some are very over used that is for sure. but are they the best or only options? the more common are good at specific things or places. mages will always have a bane... and not all mages can do the same content. same for melee, some things can't be done as melee. this is a mechanic of the game so that not all classes can do everything and will require alt and or friends...
     
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  4. Dhanas

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    You can combine weapons with every magic school, i make you some examples, spear + fire, spear + ice, spear + earth, spear + death, spear + life, sword + fire, sword + ice, sword + earth, sword + death, sword with life, I can assure all those build works in PVE and certains in PVP too. Of course you can't do every content with just one of those combination, because this is how the game has been built and this is totaly by design.
    The only weapon less efficent with magic is bow, why? Because bow has not enchant related to gem (ex. death ray power, stone arrow str bonus, ice arrow power, life power, fire dmg).

    All those builds works both with light armor or heavy armor.

    Do you will do same dmg with death+ spear than spear+ tactic? Of course no, surely spear + tactic will do more dmg but they might reach almost the same dps, with death+spear or life +spear or water+spear you will have more sustain than just using spear + tactic, with fire+spear or earth+spear you will boost your aoe dmg more than just using spear+tactic.
    At the same time if you choose to combine light armor with one of those build you will have more move and attack speed, more dodge chance, if you choose to combine heavy armor you will have less mobility and less attack speed but more damage resistance and avoidance. I can continue all the day listing different combinations that could work, if you need more info about certains build you can pm me and i can try to help you sharing with you my knowledge about the game.

    Composition of deck is important too to make one build work, not all the builds works with the same deck, number of locked/unlocked and which one you choose to lock/unlock is realy realy important and totaly determinate the success or fail of a build.

    Said all of this, how can your third spec in tactic/focus/subterfuge with relative boost of stats buffs could help to balance the game better than this?

    I know not many ppl deeply understand combat system of this game, because it is not so easy as it seems and often tooltips are not accurate as they should be, but i can assure you that i play this game from a long time, i tryed different combination of specializations and builds and 80% of those work in PVE, unfortunately can't say the same for PVP, but that is another point, that i am not going to explain now in this thread.
     
  5. Aetrion

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    "Works in PvE" is a very low bar to set to claim that something is viable. With how easy it is to kite/heal enemies forever in this game, sure, almost everything "works", but that doesn't mean it's fun to play when you have to slowroll every single encounter.

    People are going to optimize for damage, and right now that means picking one of a few meta builds.
     
  6. Violet Ronso

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    This Water Mage you spoke about, mind sharing your knowledge with me? Possibly in private if you prefer? It is something I've always wanted to do, and since physical resistances of mobs are now fixed, I decided to go for it and re-spec. If you prefer discord : ThatOddFrenchGuy#3627

    If you don't that is fine too I won't hold it against ya, just lemme know ;)
     
  7. HogwinHD

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    I agree Mostly with this but that last part doesnt apply to all top players, most of which ( myself icluded ) encourage people to ask us questions and find out info on builds etc a lot of us top players just have more of the one thing that some dont posess.. and thats a lot of free time.. i am of the philosophy that no one player is better than another.. time is really the only factor. My point is, dont be afraid to ask higher level people questions and get insight from them.. and if some do refuse to help... then those people should just be left alone because they do not represent the rest of us..
     
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  8. Adam Crow

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    This is just nonsense. You keep saying the same thing over and over after everyone here has given you countless specific examples of why this won't help the game. They have also offered to help show you first hand and you continue with this broken record of an argument. Just give it up or come up with something other then speculation and your misinformed opinion. You obviously haven't tried any of these builds in the game. Maybe you should stop wasting your time theorizing and actually go test some builds. Or send Chris a pm, and ask him one on one what he thinks about both of your ideas. Cause I can guarantee that you won't like his answer, if he even wastes his time answering you.
     
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  9. Aetrion

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    You're seriously sitting here claiming that every build in the game does comparable damage?

    I'm not going to publicize any private conversations I've had with the devs. They don't respond to forum threads like this for a reason.
     
  10. FrostII

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    Please be specific, @Aetrion - tell us what those "few" meta builds are .
     
  11. Aetrion

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    How about you get specific and tell us how to make every ability combination deal the same damage.
     
  12. FrostII

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    'Cmon man !
    I just want to know what you consider "a few meta builds" and then decide whether or not I agree with you.
     
  13. Mac2

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    We are not the ones making the first claim, you are, that means its up to you to prove it first. If i make the first claim, I have to prove it, and I usually do with a video. If I say when I let go of this apple it will not fall but will rise instead. If I have no evidence of this happening no one is going to believe me. It is up to me to prove it first.
     
  14. Aetrion

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    Actually I don't have to prove anything. Even if what I'm saying was entirely subjective, if the perception of it is widespread and detrimental to the game's overall numbers it should be changed, because a game succeeds or fails on whether or not it provides people with a subjectively positive experience.
     
  15. Adam Crow

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    No, I'm claiming that your argument is weak and you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody here claimed "they do the same damage". They have been telling you that your ideas for a fix would actually make things worse. Which is very true.
     
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  16. Aetrion

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    Yes, yes, you've said that a dozen times and it hasn't been very convincing.
     
  17. Mac2

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    I dont HAVE to prove anything, it just makes a way more convincing argument when you have proof. You talk about perception yet all of us are telling you ours, are ya listening to others perception or just your own?
     
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  18. Aetrion

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    I've given you my reasoning several times, I'm just not chasing your rocket powered goalpost, sorry.
     
  19. Barugon

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    They never will and they shouldn't. Different skillsets have different purposes. Not everything is designed to simply deliver maximum damage. Try to think outside the box.
     
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  20. Aetrion

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    There is no point in playing a character that doesn't do or contribute to maximum damage in a game doesn't have lengthy downtimes to recover resources.

    The goal of every single combat encounter in the game is to reduce the enemy to zero health. In games where there is significant downtime to recover mana and health you have an added need to be efficient with your resources, but that's not a concern in SOTA. The only efficiency measure is ammo/reagent use and durability loss, and both are minimized when you kill the enemy as quickly as possible. You also have to ensure you don't get killed yourself. That means that the second you can reliably survive a fight the only thing that further improves your character in SOTA is dealing more damage.

    Pure damage wasn't the only meta in classic MMORPGs because downtimes were long. Being able to blow up an enemy in 10 seconds wasn't useful if you had to rest for a minute afterward, and if the enemies respawned quickly enough it made it impossible to advance through a region of the game even if none of the individual enemies could kill you. That gave you a reason to build for efficiency, or bring a balanced group with tanks and healers even when the content was theoretically soloable. In Shroud this doesn't apply. There are no downtimes, so the only efficiency is how fast you can kill.

    It doesn't matter how clever you think you are, if you don't need something to survive, and it doesn't help you kill the enemy quicker it isn't useful. If you needed all the various utilities that low damage trees provide to survive in SOTA then the high damage trees wouldn't work on their own, but they do, so the low damage ones are bad.