Artifact Re-forging

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by redfish, Nov 20, 2017.

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  1. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    So, with the new changes with artifacts in R48, I was asking myself "What are Artifact Essences?" and it led me thinking about how one could theoretically create a system for artifact re-forging.

    I haven't gone into Enchanting or Masterworking myself, so I can't say much about how those current processes work and how they would stand in contrast to this, but I'll offer what I came up with and maybe others can add input.

    SINGLE-PATH ARTIFACT RE-FORGING

    "Single-path" would mean breaking down an artifact by salvaging it and then re-forging it, forming a single, closed cycle.

    [​IMG]

    The idea is that there would be an Alchemy Salvaging skill. Artifacts would have to be salvaged at an Alchemy Workstation. The alchemist would have a 100% chance to retrieve an Artifact Essence, but a small chance (say 10%) to retrieve an additional essence specific to that artifact, with additional chance based in the Alchemy Salvaging skill level. Its possible the salvage chance might even depend on the artifact.

    So, in the illustrated example, a Ring of Luck could break down into Artifact Essence and an "Essence of Luck." The elemental rings would break down into essences based on the element; for example, the "Teine" Ring into an "Essence of Fire." Other artifacts may break down into more than one essence, which combined together creates a "recipe" for re-forging. Additionally, more than one type of re-forged artifact might be possible. You would have to add materials to reforge, so a Ring of Luck would need a ring inputed in the crafting process, and the materials might be changed; for instance, you might re-forge a "Gold Ring of Luck" from a normal Ring of Luck. Possibly, essences might be able to be converted to potions, like creating a Potion of Luck from Essence of Luck.

    MULTI-PATH ARTIFACT RE-FORGING

    The second idea I had was to be able to recreate these "essences" through other means. So for example, the most obvious idea was that Fire Elementals would have "Essence of Fire" in them by some means. The most simple thing would be for Fire Elementals to continue to drop Sulfurous Ash, but give a small chance to salvage Sulfurous Ash on an Alchemy Workstation into an Essence of Fire, based on the Alchemy Salvaging skill level.

    I also gave a little thought on how to (optionally) create Artifact Essences from scratch, although this is obviously a dicey idea, because you wouldn't want player-created artifacts to be more common than artifacts found in the wild, otherwise it defeats the purpose and fun of artifacts.

    [​IMG]

    So the above illustrated example shows how the Essence of Fire here could be either derived from Sulfurous Ash (5% chance) or from the "Teine Ring" (10% chance). The idea about how to keep DIY Artifact Essence creation rare and not outstrip wild artifacts was to make it conditional on a rare forge (Obsidian Forge), require a rare input (CotO), and still require a high Alchemy Salvaging skill based on a % chance of salvage.

    SOME CONSIDERATIONS

    1. The secondary Artifact Essence salvage path isn't necessary to the other ideas here. I just thought the idea of creating DIY artifacts to be fun. It would also help to partly answer the question "What are Artifact Essences?"
    2. Essences wouldn't necessarily have the same name as the original artifact. They would be appropriate to an essence name, ie. The Belt of The Patient Harvester could salvage into an Essence of Patience. Some might also be composed of two different essences.
    3. Not all essences need to have a secondary source for salvage outside of the artifacts themselves.
    4. While the secondary source of elemental essences would be obvious (see my post on ideas for Elemental loots), other secondary sources could be creative and based on some thought. For example, an Essence of Luck might be salvaged from an Ancient Gold Ring or a coin fished out of a Wishing Well. The idea being that something retrieved with luck could be then converted into an object that gives luck. A sort of karmic conversion.
    5. Other sources might be more mundane based on rare mats, like dragon scales.
    6. Making it a smaller chance to get the essence from a secondary source ensures that artifacts are the primary source.
    7. Not all essences would have to be able to reforged into more than one type of artifact, though being able to do this would be fun. Changing the materials on re-forging adds more variety to the game.
    8. The Alchemy Salvaging process would separate the magic properties from the object; for example, turning a Shard of Night into a regular dagger and give you the essences. Orbs can either have the base item lost completely, or turned into a useless quartz globe or crystal ball.
    9. How many re-forge "recipes" exist in the world, and how many secondary sources exist would ultimately be up to the devs an could remain a work in progress, leaving a lot of artifact re-forging "unknowable" because the devs decided not to add those processes to the game yet for specific artifacts.
    10. The existence of "recipes" might mean artifacts that can only be created by players once they discover the recipe, and not existent in the wild.
    11. As said, different artifacts could have different salvage chances.
    12. I'm not sure what the entire re-forge process would be, though it could even include an Engraving skill ie for the rings, as brought up in my post on a potential Scribe's skill tree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  2. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    I get hype when I read a gold feedback post. Good read redfish.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  3. Bushmaster

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    I do love a good flow chart. Nice work!
     
  4. Diab Blackbow

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    This is why all my ring of lucks sold all of a sudden.
     
  5. Solazur

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    @redfish

    some good ideas...

    I have just a couple thoughts I'd add.


    1. COTO use. I have always been, and remain opposed to having to use a COTO (dare I say pay 2... well, you know) in any part of the crafting equation.
    2. An entire new tree. I get the idea.. but we already have enough pain gaining enough craft XP... only t have RNGesus kick us where it hurts. We already have a base Alchemy skill which for reasons I have never understood have nothing at all to do with your success rate in important things like Enchanting. Let The base Alch skill count for something.. like essence recovery.

    Regarding recipes: Nothing wrong at all with requiring recipes.. but it'd be really nice if instead of being random drops they became quest related items.. preferably non tradable. That would leave them to those who want to craft and remove them from those who just wanna farm recipes for profit..
    It'd also be cool if we had some celestial effects going on...

    Last thought...it'd be an interesting element if there was a combination of your Alchemy skill and skill in various magic trees so for example you could have someone high in Death having the ability to imbue some of their personal arcane stuff into the end product.
     
  6. redfish

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    I was thinking that handling "patterns" in a similar way, through Alchemy salvaging, would also help them make some sense lore-wise, since patterns can be compared to scrolls, can't they? Or it might be a good idea to tie them into a Scribes skill tree (as mentioned) later on, since you're doing some transcribing.
     
  7. Violet Ronso

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    Sorry Dead thread, but this was linked in a more recent thread, and this idea is actually wonderful! I prefer the Single Path, as a means to simply get a chance to re-use an artifacts essence into a player crafted item if you are lucky enough in your salvagte, rather than the possibility of the essences being dropped or crafted somehow, but this idea would actually give a purpose back to artifacts, while maintaining player crafted items as the BIS!

    Wonderful idea @redfish !
     
  8. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Heck yeah, coming over from the other one.

    I've got too look closer at the bigger flowchart, but right off I'm thinking "Cloak of the Mouse", "Daggers of Luck", and I'm liking it. I'm really, really liking it.
     
  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    After reading it for real I think this could be the most significant addition to crafting yet.

    But it doesn't have to be so foreign that it won't get implemented.

    In the end you're talking Tier 3 crafting mats, derived from Artifacts. The imbue skill is in the tree of the item or a in Alchemy, up to the Devs.

    I think it would be great to be able to combine ten essences + whatever to cleans the Essence of it's negative traits. That would be a Tier 4 or higher material. Yes, it would make some wicked stuff. I'm sure it would also take a big chunk of durability out of the item.

    And these should definitely add a descriptor to the name of the item.

    Gaia's (Heart) Bronze Dagger of Gaiaism (yep, that ones awkward)
    The Swashbucklers Hardened Leather Boots

    Cleansed: The Swashbucklers True Bronze Spear of Necromancy (whew!)
     
  10. Violet Ronso

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    I see it more along the lines of if the artifact is a ring, its essence could only be used as jewelry. This would maintain balance while still permitting us to do great crafted thing. I feel like being able to imbue a full set of gear with the essence from a wand of embers (or conflagration, which ever gives that extra fire point) could end up making abusing sets, but the be able to infuse it into an Ashen wand, or into an ashen staff (if they ever get buffed), that would give it that much more potential without being broken.
     
  11. Floors

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    Have any of your ideas ever been implemented, Redfish ?
     
  12. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    @Lord Trady of Blix

    Yea in parts, I can tell that some of the things I've suggested have influenced the devs thinking. Same is true of suggestions by other players.

    I don't expect them to take everything players suggest, because sometimes how players think the game should fit together is on a different track than how the devs think it should. Sometimes I wish the devs would be more on my track, but whatever :D
     
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