Bludgeon weapon skill changes

Of course play testing may change my opinion but doubtful since my disagreement is over the impact to the game, the economy, immersion and other combat considerations.

At first blush it would seem to be a more immediate reward in combat in the form of a debuff.
But in reality as your weapon or armor took damage / durability dropped they did less damage / protected less as the durability dropped.
Where then I ask is the advantage?

Answer - if you are one of those who dislike the idea of "precious" breaking or having to consider un-equipping your "precious" item then this is a plus. No worry you may have to switch weapons or withdraw from combat to change armor or have your special item degrade and eventually have to be replaced or re-forged etc.
In that respect an argument could be made that the R13 way promoted not fighting with your best stuff.

Defense for keeping the R13 implementation strategy or some version of it.

- Immersion - Some early stated aims of the game were with respect to immersion and not being your standard button mashing, mindless and endless combat. How then do you explain debuffs? How does my weapon or armor temporarily perform or protect against damage less and then magically regain it again in combat?
Take your favorite combat story, movie or historical record and combat leads to multiple weapons or the risk of weapons or armor or shields taking damage and either must be changed or retreat to fight again later. Buffs destroy the immersion and make this WoW or any other game on the market.

- Impact to the goal of Affinity for items - one aspect of affinity was the idea that for an item to attain this special extra ability it had to survive, have money invested in maintaining and repairing it and thus "most" users would not put in the requisite effort to attain it and thus those items with affinity would be special.
One aspect of UO and its predecessors was that things were not easy and were not given to you. It was not a Monty Haul game aimed at coddling those who did not invest the time or the effort or appreciation needed to succeed - be that PVP or crafting etc. This change to a buff system will make affinity significantly more common I feel and if some ideas I have heard where being able to reforge them and maintain that affinity is true will dilute their specialness even further.

- Impact to economy - If we go to debuffs then to some extent items need to be repaired more slowly, you do not need more than one of an item in a fight if you encounter bludgeon style encounters - particularly if the NPC mobs with bludgeon weapons also damage equipment.

- Weapon choice becomes Vanilla - the names and graphics change but they are the same. Blades do more dps and bludgeon does debuffs in the end they are the same - while tactics still protects your precious items from damage that now does not come from bludgeon weapons but only through normal wear. With the R13 version it was on track to be a difference in play style and battle choice. Do I do more combos and damage with Blades or do I do less damage and hope to wear his equipment down first and force a swap or to retreat from battle - particularly of value in bigger combats with multiple opponents on each side.

In the end I just feel personally that the bludgeon skill tree as it was aimed to be in R13 and its trade offs were closer to why they were chosen historically, provided more immersion, more tactical and strategic choices and decisions and added a unique quality to the game as do other aspects such as the deck system.
This change seems one more step to take the seriousness of the game away and make this more vanilla and cocooning to those averse to risk.

I would be curious to hear the developers enlighten us as to the rewards of the buff system and why they feel it is better.

 

Ever since a dev said "no breakage" I've been concerned about hand holding in terms of equipment.. and quite honestly some of the thinking in regards to a handful of features to me seem contrary to the desired goal. So I have to say I myself find a debuff system for bludgeons to be quite odd.

If people are complaining that armor is being damaged too quickly.. isn't the task at hand to balance that? Switching to debuffs then feels like a quick and dirty fix that tries to avoid the issue rather than address it.

Oh and in case I haven't said it enough for the past 2 years.. stuff needs to BREAK.. eventually..

 

I really didn't like the breakage skills from bludgeons and flatly refused to use them when i was that spec. Using them made me feel like a douchebag. Served no real purpose, the debuff has a more immediate effect in combat and seems like a better option to me. Its like you have smacked your opponents gear askew and they have no time to adjust it until the fight ends. People keep using the word immersion to justify really strange things.

 

For my part I'm not suggesting mass destruction of gear but impact weapons are rather more harsh on armor and shield than other weapons. Still, gear should be able to last awhile. Longer than it did with normal activity in R13. In this case though.. damage to armor isn't really a strange thing.

 

Yeah my issue was with having actual skills that served little purpose other than additional damage to gear XD

 

A couple of comments -
- All weapons and attacks factor into damaging armor in the form of durability loss from the successful reduction of damage. Whether that was through the owning player "using" their equipment or otherwise. The bludgeon was just accelerating that by applying extra damage to the equipment in lieu of damage to the player. I believe as mentioned above the solution should be to tweak / balance the damage done rather than switch to a buff system that I would think may have the opposite effect.
If durability if factored by the use and or amount of damage mitigated / caused and a buff lowers the amount of damage mitigated / caused then by extension it has actually prolonged the life of the equipment.
-As for a temporary effect explanation for a buff - I could see this if it were perhaps a shield but I fail to see how using a weapon would cause chain mail for example to protect less only temporarily (the buff is on a short timer remember not a combat long timer) and then within seconds it is whole again. The same for a weapon. If this were magic I could see that but it is not it is an effect of a mundane item and using a mundane skill.
It is a game and obviously one can have whatever one wants but it does not fit with the descriptions used by the devs on deep dives in describing combat and making it immersive.
-Not sure what your dig was about immersion, since immersion is about the believability of being there or in the actions playing out before you. Swords in general thrust and cut / slice through things, axes were used to cut but also to hook and pull shields down so I could see this being a "buff" effect since you could pull the shield back up after the blow. They were also used to cut and rip at shields and armor. Not coming back after a few seconds. Maces etc could misshape armor but beating it back into place is the same thing you are doing when you repair it - so it caused it to need repair which in this game is durability which means the weapon was doing some amount of damage to the armor. The same is true of polearms such as halberds and glaives. If you know the mechanics or history for you it would impact immersion. The same as if you know science or history some movies break immersion by ignoring high school science or history. Not all are impacted those who do not or did not know would not be impacted.

My bigger complaint with the change is that it seems more about assuaging the concern of those who don't like to have to repair or perhaps even lose / break their items and away from previously stated aims. Those aims in particular are the aim of combat being a money sink and generating business for crafters. As well as the impact on affinity for items. Immersion is a secondary concern and more about why I liked the way bludgeon was working before. Though I felt axes likely should have had it's own tree.

If you feel like a douche because you were causing damage to an opponents equipment rather than killing them......perhaps it is more a about reversal. Skills increasing that damage do make sense as you are learning more about weak points / attributes of armor types. You are focusing more on how to trap them in their armor, bash a visor to impair vision or misshape a elbow joint so they can not bend it and thus limit how they can swing or use their shield or weapon. Once bent or jammed it isn't popping right out in a few seconds or a moment it will take repair.

But just my opinion it is equally as valid as the next persons.