Combat Redux

You are totally missing everyones point. The combat doesn't have to be lke any of those games, it just shouldn't suck.

I'm not comparing a FPS or a racing game to a fantasy MMO.I'm just giving examples of games where I felt that battling was fun. Battling is NOT fun in this game.

I'm saying it doesn't have to be like any other game. The exact opposite of what you're saying I am doing.. I don't want Tekken or Quake.. I sure as hell don't want the current boring system..

The only thing all those games I listed had in common was that combat was fun and engaging...That was the point so you can stop saying I want "this game" or "that game". You're not even understanding the point and or context....

We're all saying the combat in this MMO is very bad and needs to change to be more engaging...

No one is asking for a racing game or a straight up fighting game..

Context and understanding is completely lost on some of the people here. You criticise me as a player because I dislike the combat and won't miss me? Not a great sense of community here.... That's not very inviting....

Good riddance to all of us that don't like the combat?

Wow. With terrible combat and a player community like this, the game doesn't have a chance...

 

Fine, I'm going to bait and reply, knowing that I'm going to regret it.

Ok, I'm going to skip the personal insult game here.

Fun is subjective. Engaging is subjective. I'm not actually sure what directed is supposed to mean. Slow is subjective. Boring is subjective.
Give a detailed, to the point, objective suggestion, then that is feedback that a developer might work with. Start of saying which part you are criticising, locked, random, hybrid or all sort of decks. When you say slow, how many actions each second should be required? Give concrete figures.

I didn't play, since there is no game to play, but I tested the prototype provided. If that qualifies, I spent more than 50 hours. How about you? Have you battled Net? Have you fought Themo Lock? Who won?

 

It's simply boring combat. Other games you have to actually control your character to perform attacks and evasion.. Not in this game..

If you can't understand what I mean by slow and boring, you'll never get it... Maybe you think the combat is good. That's fine. I and a lot of people don't.

When I say slow, I mean my character stands there during combat and auto attacks... I barely need to do anything except watch a hotbar and hit my hotkeys according to a timer... The focus is on watching hotkeys and not just controlling your avatar and controlling the action...

I tried to give suggestions, I tried to give ideas. I Tried to list other games where combat was fun.

I feel very unwelcome here and realise more and more that this horse has been beaten to death and nothing is going to make the combat better. It seems to be good enough for some people... It is not even close for a lot of us.

I have not battled those players nor do i care to. The combat is not fun and battling someone with a different name will not make if fun.

 

That "wonderful community" that everyone brags as a selling point is showing its adorable countenance again. "Don't like card combat? Good riddance!" "You aren't a player, you're a dev! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

Keep speakin' out, folks. If you have a problem with combat, housing, mob AI, crafting, whatever, now's the time to speak out. Game'll be out in 2016. We're not helping fund or make a game to compete with EverQuest circa 2003, but the likes of Black Desert Online and Star Citizen and even contemporary games of 2015 and earlier. We need to make it a good game so we can get Episodes 2 and 3. I don't want another Borgias to happen (or I'll mass send sardines to Portalarium).

 

You can attack and you can evade triggered through a button.

And you would perish in 10 out of 10 battles. I'd be willing to gamble and bet that you can stand still in every single game you mentioned.

Have you considered that you are doing it wrong?

Maybe not, but it might get you an idea. If you loose 10 out of 10 times against somebody, maybe, just maybe it is not the system, but the user controlling the system? Or why is it that the other guy is always winning?

Not a single, objective concrete one. You said 'you do it wrong, others do it better, but I do not suggest you do it like them'. HOW should it be done? Make it 'fun' is equally productive as saying make that racing car faster. I'm sure that mechanic would have never guessed that Explaining that the mechanic might get better results by varying the oxygen input would be viable constructive criticism.

I am sorry if you have that feeling. However starting with a friendly 'grow up' might not be the best possible way to rake in friendly response either. ( What foes around, comes around. )

 

Reading Starr Long's message about R17, you can search the entire text about what made it in, what didn't make it in, and what is to come in future plans, highlighted at the end of his message.

The word "combat" does not appear once, anywhere in the message.

 

R17 was a 'polish release' and tried to get the basics of crafting and dyeable cloth done.
R18 has:

Not every part of the system is getting equal attention each release.

 

Agreed, and I've posted such points elsewhere. Cold is also a subjective term, but we all freeze to death if left out in it long enough.

The reason fun and engaging get attacked is because they're the defenses of the combat system. People can't prove a negative. If you have a reason it does work, please put it forward. If you have something I'm missing that you find engaging put it forward. Let us know what makes this 'better'. When I ask I get "It's more fun and engaging than WoW". I disagree, and so do many others. Now what?

They're charging for something for people to play. It's open to critique. As for duration, who cares? The fact that people are not willing to put the time in to get really good at it means something in the process is broken. These aren't people who are coming here looking for a non-RPG. These are RPG fans who are saying this combat doesn't work for them, if anything their lack of play is more damning than your willingness to do so.

Who cares? This isn't about winning or losing, this is about having fun doing. It's the journey, not the destination.

 

I disagree, in fact ... I'm most disagreeable on here most days with most people and while I know some don't like me for it , it's newer members of the community that are usually calling for the door, i do have to say usually though lol, I also think some of it's blown out of proportion due to frustrations with the agruement to the point were they become all 'screw it just stop playing the game then if you don't like it'

 

I will say I've heard it for a long time from some of the highest ranks in the community.

It's a knee jerk reaction to someone attacking something you enjoy. It doesn't make sense to them. If you don't enjoy something, why knock it down? Why not go somewhere else? I get that, but we all invested in this game. We all want it to succeed. If enough people are shouting about something not being good, even if you like it, perhaps it's worth looking talking about. It's hard to get people to understnad you're on their side when it seems like you're trying to take their toys away.

 

Logain... You are so out of touch with reality I can't even begin to reply. You missed the points in every single one of your comments.... Every single one of them and it's not even worth debating.

Maybe the combat just sucks man. It's not that I'm bad at it, I live and breath PvP in all games. I am well versed and experienced... The combat just sucks. What is so hard to grasp about that? Where are you getting this "If you lose 10 times out of 10 maybe it's the user not the system".. Was I saying I keep loosng duels. No, I'm saying that the system straight up sucks... You're literally making things up now that were never said.

Have I considered I'm doing it wrong? No. I've been gaming my entire life, I understand hotbar/hotkey combat very well.. I've played lots of WoW and Warhammer and tons of other games. I simply hate the hotkeys/timer system.. You're simply being condescending and ignorant telling me "I'm doing it wrong" just because I don't like it?

Slow is subjective? No it isn't. Everyone would agree a turtle is slow and a rabbit is fast... if you want to sit here and tell me it's subjective and maybe the turtle is fast then we have nothing to talk about as you are not grasping very simple and basic concepts. The combat in this game is like a turtle....

The combat uses an auto target system... No one is aiming anything. Talk all you want, the combat is not very interactive. I've offered lots of suggestions to improve combat and make it more interactive.. I never simply said "make it fun".... What posts are you reading? Not mine.

It seems that the players who enjoy combat the most and are good at it understand how bad it is and dislike it in this game.

 

The reason this subject raises so much passion is because we are all heavily invested (figuratively and literally) in this game and want it to be our home. I don't begrudge anyone their contrary opinion, nor their argumentativeness over it, reasonable people can see things different ways. My original point was never that one group is "right" and the other "wrong", it was simply that there appears to be a large percentage of the population that agrees that combat is just not working. And the devs have posted their commitment that if combat turned out not to be fun, they would "consider trying other options". All I want to know is what criteria are needed to reach that point if we're not there already? That's a rhetorical question, obviously I want it changed and I would like to know if the devs are serious about "trying other options" or if they feel they are too far down the road now to change it.

If the system is going to stay fundamentally the same, i.e., cards randomly drawn from a deck and appearing on the hotbar, then I would just like to know this so that I can take whatever action I want in response. I may stick around and see if it improves with evolution, or I may just saw "screw it, it'll never work for me" (more likely imo). Either way, I would like to know so I can kind of get closure on the issue. Getting started in an MMO is a big commitment and if it's not going to happen here, I would like to turn my focus back to the other early access MMO's we are currently evaluating.

I'm excited about getting a nice home placement in Owl's Head this morning and it was nice seeing so many people running around everywhere. Life! I even ran into Lord British standing on the overland map between Soltown and Ardoris, watching the land rush. It's hard not to be excited about this game and its huge potential. And then I remember the combat ...

 

This.

And this.

All over this.

 

Yes, but note that when Starr Long listed at the bottom of his meessage the big things coming in future releases, he didn't mention this or say boo about combat. It does not appear to be a top of mind concern for Portalarium.

 

It's clear a large portion of backers don't just dislike the combat..it's actually a deal breaker for them. I think of backers as fans of a home team. They want to see their team succeed. They want to cheer and have fun. When half of the fans start booing and begin heading for the doors...it's time for the team do do some serious reevaluation of what went wrong.

Please give us all something to cheer for.

 

In one of my few defenses of Portalarium, because art assets are designed, defined and finished before the rest of the game is. The artists generally have nothing to do, and can't do anything to add to other development processes to help speed them up, make them better.

Charging for stuff like this leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. But in a world where the subscription model is dead, if you want an online game, you need some way to keep the money coming in.

Where I walk back a lot of that is: There is a huge divide in the community right now, and while I understand push it out when you have it mentality, it might feel better for us if you stopped looking like you were going after the money until you settle this for them. Some people seem to believe that you can/will walk back combat to something presentable. The more people invest in these intangible objects on hopes that a game will eventually get to where they want, the angrier they'll be when it doesn't quite get there.

Keep the money coming in, I get it. It has to happen, or the game doesn't come out. But try to look at it from our point of view as well.

 

Do you think the art of the game is at a point where the artists can move to book covers? I think there are some very fundamental issues with art in the game.

 

It would also go a long way to get more people to reinvest in the game, as a lot of people left over combat. Not to mention there are hundreds of players, easily, who are shying away from this game because of the card combat system. It would do Porty some good to reevaluate burning a dollar to save a penny.

 

It depends on the artist; Animator or texture artist? Do they have the models set and rigged and ready for new textures? Or are they waiting on something to be redone. Orchestrating a large team means you have weird moments of down time where you're still paying the team.

Do I think it was their BEST choice? No. But without knowing the schedules, it probably isn't as bad as most people would make it out to be.

Yep. I'd happily start buying add ons if the game was something I was going to play. I still hope they'll walk combat back. It would be nice. Maybe trade cool downs for a global warm up mechanic and ditch the deck system entirely?

 

I have never had a problem pouring money into a game that I enjoy. But I have my limits, like anyone else. I poured more than I'd care to admit into ArcheAge because the game was tremendously satisfying on so many levels, my wife and I loved it and created a wonderful world there. But the company was so greedy, so incompetent, so ... deranged, we had no trouble pulling up our stakes and leaving. Apparently, we weren't alone.

I don't feel that way about Portalarium. My life experience with the Ultima franchise, Origin Systems, and RG in general has left me feeling that he is one of the good guys in the industry. And so I happily ponied up here. I upgraded from Row lot to Village lot and have my eyes on Town and above, but this combat thing has left me feeling like there's no further point if my wife and I don't enjoy it.

I secured my lots this morning in Owl's Head and Ardoris and will keep an eye on this game to see where combat goes, and check in from time to time to keep our plots active. But we have moved to another MMO for daily play and to see how we like it. I don't like walking away from an investment, but I'm disciplined investor and I know when it's time to admit that I'm throwing good money after bad and cut the cord. I haven't reached that conclusion yet, but the money is certainly on hold while I wait to see what happens.