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Combat: The Minimum Expectations of 21st Century RPGS

Discussion in 'Release 4 Feedback' started by DNA Cowboy, Mar 28, 2014.

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  1. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer Ambassador

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    I think we'll hit most of your marks within a few releases. Our combat will be very different than Dark Souls, in that it will be more strategic and less twitch.

    Chris
     
  2. DNA Cowboy

    DNA Cowboy Avatar

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    Fantastic! I love the sound of more strategy and less twitch! :)
    Again, thanks for the feedback.




    Neither Deep Down nor Kingdom Come: Deliverance are action-rpgs, I suggest you check out the most recent in-depth videos.

    Kingdom Come: Deliverance is an upcoming open-world role-playing game, set in the 15th century medieval Central Europe with a focus on historically accurate and realistic content.



    Deep Down is an online Free to Play RPG that takes place in New York in the year 2094. Ravens are a group of people that possess a special ability to read the memories of an object and hear voices of the past.As Ravens, players will proceed through dungeons in the past and investigate. There is a theme of ‘emotion’ in this game; there are various dungeons in the past that correspond to the feelings of human emotions. When you read a stone statue and enter a dungeon, things full of past thoughts and grudges are scattered around. If they touch those thoughts, they can read memories of the past.
    In Deep Down, the dungeon layouts differ with each dungeons "Momentos", or its "thoughts". The Dungeons you can get are determinded also by its "Emotion". The contents of a dungeon change based on the type of emotion, such as sadness or anger. For example, a dungeon made from anger would produce bursting flames and a dungeon of sadness would be engulfed in freezing ice.



    (Incredible but it is in-gameplay)
     
  3. Morkul

    Morkul Avatar

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    I know nothing about Kingdom Come but developers of the Deep Down says that it's a "action-packed realtime RPG". So my guess is that it will be a action RPG.
     
  4. Canterbury

    Canterbury Avatar

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    Got to say I agree with the earlier posters, re: taking the style of gameplay from an action RPG, like Dark Souls, and demanding it in an interactive story RPG.

    SotA never has, and never will be, an action RPG. You will never see combat like that in this game; it's just not the direction the game has ever been going in.

    SotA is about the story, not needing a Razer Naga mouse with 12 buttons, and lightning sharp reflexes, to pull off crazy combat moves. That's just so not what SotA is.
     
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  5. DNA Cowboy

    DNA Cowboy Avatar

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    Here is Kingdom Come: Deliverance on PC:


    (jump to 36.00 to see combat)

    Kazunori Sugiura describes Deep Down as a 'online Free to Play RPG game', he is the game developer.
    Anyway, why are a few subscribers getting hung up on the term 'action' rpg in relation to rpg combat?
    We all know that the community will not tolerate yet another point and click MMO and forthcoming traditional rpgs are implementing combat consisting of the moves laid out in the OP with associated animations; therefore, I cannot see how traditional rpgs cannot have great combat along the lines of Dark Souls, we know that some trad-type rpgs are implementing similar combat so why not SoTA?



    Again, no-one is suggesting that SoTA be an action-rpg, the Dark Souls video examples were used to show parry, riposte and thrust, all combat animations of which have been implemented in recent traditional rpgs.
    Many of the 'earlier' posters stated that they like these combat suggestions and hope they are introduced, in fact when you weigh them up more are in favour than not and most importantly Chris wrote in reply here that SoTA plans to implement most of my combat marks.

    Finally here is Witcher 3 combat , Witcher 3 is another forthcoming rpg:


    (jump to 1:00 to see combat)
     
  6. Canterbury

    Canterbury Avatar

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    But it's absolutely clear that, with the skill deck form of combat, that's not a direction the game will be going in, whether we call it an action RPG style of combat, or anything else.

    Hence my comment, "You will never see combat like that in this game; it's just not the direction the game has ever been going in."

    Some good reading here on how combat works; decks; noble skills; focus skills, etc: https://shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-combat.4094/
     
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  7. Morkul

    Morkul Avatar

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    Thing is if the combat in SotA will even get close to Deep Down I will not play SotA! Just because the combat is action based. The whole idea of you need to click just in the right 1/10 of a second to be able to parry a blow or make any other type of combat move are so boring in the long run. From a RPG point of view the parry ability should not be on how good my personal timing are, how good ping or latency are it all should be depending on how good my character are on parry, same thing for all combat in the game.

    I'm quite sure we won't get that kind of combat in SotA, if you listen to the devs they have several times said it will have more strategic combat. They have also said that a combat move (skill/card) will have different outcome depending on the previous combat move so you get a kind of link between them. Not long ago they got the question about mixing combat moves with magic and thereby get additional combat moves and even if they didn't give a clear answer we will probably see some kind of mix. So I think we will get proper combat in SotA where the characters skill and player strategic are more important than timing and clicking.
     
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  8. DNA Cowboy

    DNA Cowboy Avatar

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    I'm satified now Chris has stated my hopes for combat are for the most part being implemented with the proviso that he is using a stronger strategic angle which is fine by me (as long they have quality animations I'm happy)
     
  9. D A Morton

    D A Morton Avatar

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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not World of Warcraft or like this. As a Hunter you only mash keys to kill the mob you have clicked on after sending your pet in. The combat method in SOTA is fitting for the game and I agree with DNA
     
  10. DNA Cowboy

    DNA Cowboy Avatar

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    I am SO looking forward to seeing R5 combat, for the first time it will give us the fan an opportunity to test what will be the game's combat system albeit rough around the edges. Again, remember the game is only in alpha.
     
  11. Devoid

    Devoid Avatar

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    From a PvP-perspective, I agree with DNA Cowboy and his example from Dark Souls combat, parry in particular. I like where one can counter an attack with a well timed parry and make a counter attack... with some practice and skill, such a maneuver can turn the tables in a fight; with little, or no randomness!

    I would also like to see the game's AI take into consideration the timing of player's attacks such that if two attacks occur simultaneously, then they 'clash' and mitigate damage.
    Another really cool aspect is to be able to equip two shields and defend, parry, bash/slash and push with them. Using two shields like this is very active combat/defence and not random.

    Another suggestion is a 'ducking' ability. With proper timing and skill, a player could duck an attack, be it a head shot, a swing to the upper torso etc...etc... all things that make the game more fun and challenging and less random and "dum".

    My apologies if this has been mentioned before, I did try a search first (which brought me to this thread), but these are items that need to be mentioned again, until they are implemented in the game. After all, good meaningful PvP is the only thing worth fighting for!
    If the PvP is good, then the PvE will be too, and not the other way around.

    I and everybody else is really looking forward to what you have in store for us Chris! Strategic with little to no twitch or randomness is good! I am by far not a skilled player, but I can appreciate skills and there is nothing, NOTHING! more satisfying than timing a skilled decisive ability at just the right moment!
    Those are the moments one boasts about at the inn!
     
  12. Sir Tiddles

    Sir Tiddles Avatar

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    current combat iteration:



    I think DNA Cowboy would be distraught if he'd seen this. :-/
     
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