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Cost of crafting vs achievable sale prices

Discussion in 'Release 33 Feedback Forum' started by KikkiJikki, Sep 5, 2016.

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  1. sdbaynham

    sdbaynham Avatar

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    Even if someone were to buy from you, they would be better off reselling the materials than crafting them into something. For those who enjoy living out the artisan video game fantasy and don't enjoy flushing money down the toilet, this is a problem.
     
  2. KikkiJikki

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    I understand you. It's just that I don't agree with your view on this. Equilibrium on resource pricing will occur when supply and demand are more aligned. Similarly with crafted goods. As to whether the price of a crafted good will ever exceed the cost, is another question. Right now the chance of that is not looking good but it is still possible, depending on what the game devs do. And we are still in beta...
     
  3. Drothar Battleforge

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    I think the biggest point in the cost equation is the crafted items really do not bring any game changing abilities that warrant the prices being put on them, the only thing I cannot live without is the 14ish% crit chance I can get on my Two Hander, other then that I could be doing what I do in normal epic plate.
     
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  4. Rofo

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    There are several problems, I started a very long post detailing all of them, but came to my senses.

    The entire Producer tree, is in infancy stages, and will likely be drastically reworked, or the entire gathering/refining/crafting/masterwork/enchanting economy is doomed to fail.

    I think the only crafted pieces that anyone should want, are the weapons, the chest piece, rings, and necklaces. Everything else your better off in founder gear. I think the only for sure value is adding Gems, it has no risk of blowing up, no durability loss, and actually makes a magic line viable.
     
  5. Drothar Battleforge

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    Nothing on my chest I could live without, and I am not currently using a neck or ring, and I can still do the mining or what little fun me and my friends can get from killing things.
     
  6. Tahru

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    I did not say count the ore as free. I charge my prices all based on actual material cost plus a fixed markup. The material cost is whatever the market value is. However, there are two important aspects. (1) Since I am gathering my own materials, I can lower the fixed markup and still do well. (2) If the market is charging 100g per ore, I can choose to ignore the ridiculous cost and charge what I believe is a reasonable price. The net effect is that people will buy from me because I am cheaper than everyone else, market better and in the case of blacksmithing, can sell it cheaper than they can make it.
     
  7. monkeysmack

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    That's absolutely not true. About 6 releases ago you could get the time to craft SPECIFIC items down to under 1 second once you hit level 80 or so in the associated skill. But they changed in release 28 so that even at the highest skill levels, it still takes 7-8 seconds to craft BASIC components like leather straps or spools of cotton. If you use bulk crafting it takes EVEN LONGER, 9-10 seconds per item. For an augmented supple leather armor suit, it takes about 500 hides. Those hides have to be turned into leather, then into supple leather, then into yards of supple leather... not to mention the metal bindings (that's a two step process). I make armor for a guild and I spend HOURS of game time doing it. It's not a 5 minute break from adventuring, POOF! insta armor suit. But crafters time is worthless so who cares [/sarc]. Adventure's time is sacred and must be compensated with lots of loot even though they get adventurer exp with the loot. Crafter skillups are reward enough and crafters need to grind skellys to buy the mats to get their skillups. Right? If I flip this logic then why don't we make adventures do crafting quests and vendor crafted items they had to make, in order to make gold to pay for adventuring (i.e., no loot from adventuring just the experience points). Odd sort of double standard here.

    I'm afraid I have to agree.
     
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  8. monkeysmack

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    Other than core stat improvements (int, dex, str), the masterworking bonuses are mostly worthless. No one will pay a 4k gold markup on a cloth helm with a lousy .1 focus regen buff. Doing a lot of masterworking, I seldom get a role for the core stats. I almost always get 15% item damage resistance. Which, for a light armor piece that has a based damage resistance of 1, that's a whopping .15 additional damage resist. :rolleyes: Complely, freaking worthless.
     
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  9. sdbaynham

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    Even if these timings were not significantly exaggerated (they are), even with the 170 leather, 43 supple leather, 14 basic ingots, 7 premium ingots, 14 bindings, 20 yards, 3 straps, and 5 gear combines, this is still 20 minutes of crafting. 30 minutes on the outside with rushing around & buying reagents. I can also do it while only half-paying attention to the game. For point of comparison, how long does it take to get ahold of 43 suet, 28 basic ore, 170 metal scraps, 28 "rare" ore, and 170 animal hides?
     
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  10. sdbaynham

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    I, like other "adventuring players", will spend an entire evening gathering materials for a piece and then knock out the crafting just before bed while watching TV or something. I understand the relative value of the two activities extremely well.
     
  11. Burzmali

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    If you want to get rewarded for managing ledgers and spreadsheets, there's always the world of chartered accountancy.
     
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  12. sdbaynham

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    Actually, spreadsheets can be very rewarding in this game. Finding deals and moving goods from one town to another to take advantage of market inefficiencies works great, and will likely work better if the game grows. Sitting in town watching Netflix, not so much.
     
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  13. Burzmali

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    I agree if you are a number-maker-biggerer player, but if you want fulfillment beyond that you're going to need a game with a stock market at the very least.
     
  14. LoneStranger

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    We have COTOs and people speculating on the price, and often buying low to sell high either now or in the future. That's for all intents and purposes, a stock market.
     
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  15. Burzmali

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    It's baby's first commodity trading sim. Implement a futures market, an orders book and purchases on margin and you might have a passable commodities market, but that's only a fraction of a stock market, and just as out of place in a medieval fantasy world.
     
  16. LoneStranger

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    Good thing we're a quasi-medieval/steampunk/fantasy/multi-dimensional/wormhole-connected/retro-futurism world.
     
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  17. Lifedragn

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    Hopefully this sentiment is quickly dispelled as it makes a poor starting position for measuring value. Not everyone playing has Founder gear. And hopefully the game will be successful enough that those with Founder Gear is an extremely small fraction of the player base in the near to mid future.

    Good comparison fodder would be the default armors available from NPC vendors.
     
  18. Burzmali

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    Still not sure an Eve style stock exchange would fit in that mix. A Victorian style one might fit in, but then they'd might as well implement full loot PVP as well at that point.
     
  19. LoneStranger

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    Well, I didn't say we had one or should have a formal stock market. I'm just saying that plenty of people have been playing at something similar to the stock market by speculating on COTOs, just as we have people speculating on the real estate market.
     
  20. Lazlo

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    Crafting is somewhat messed up at the moment, but the supply of items available to buy isn't anywhere near what a lot of people make it out to be. Just because there are a lot of +BigNumber items on sale for cheap doesn't mean that those items are actually good. Most of them are garbage, which is why they are so cheap. I haven't seen too many exceptional items with good enchantments/masterworks being given away. Mostly just stuff like iron daggers with a million + and no durability that someone used to skill up.
     
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