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Cost of crafting vs achievable sale prices

Discussion in 'Release 33 Feedback Forum' started by KikkiJikki, Sep 5, 2016.

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  1. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Avatar

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    I've just taken a longsword +5 of tempestry off vendor at Owlshead as it was due to expire in a couple of hours. At the time I listed there really wasn't much on there to compare it with so I did my best guess on price taking into account what it cost to make. But now there are a heap of other longswords on it and there are items with comparable or better stats at significantly less price so I can understand why it didn't sell.

    However looking at those prices people are consistently asking for a lot less than the cost to make, given price of gold for enchants, silver for masterworks, gems for atunement (and better enchant bonuses). Surveying the market that seems to be the trend.

    So it looks like, if I want to craft I need to expect to take a loss on anything I make. That seems counter-intuitive to me. Shouldn't crafting add value? Is there are point at which crafting starts making economic sense?
     
  2. Marlon

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    I agree.
    Have you ever tried to add up the cost of a blank book, which sells in some places for 2 gp, respectively 50 gp? There is no point in making these things when you get them so cheap somewhere else.
     
  3. reuge

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    That's because people are crafting to level and not crafting to earn a profit. The craft items are a by product, which are suppose to be disposed quickly and fuel their crafting ambitions.

    This could be uneconomical for aspiring crafters. A lot of mmo fix this by making items binding.
     
  4. Halvard

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    How this fixes anything is beyond me
     
  5. NRaas

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    Consider it then : That means that all your competitors are also selling below cost.

    As rednought mentioned, this is because the end goal is not to make the items, but to acquire skill. They are probably supplementing their income in the some other manner to maintain output.

    Unfortunately, I have no idea when or if the market will stabilize.

    ----

    Personally, I sell my goods at a price that I feel covers the effort involved, and the materials I used to make it, which I suspect means I am selling higher than other players.

    That means I probably don't sell as much as others... However I have no overhead costs, so can wait out the chaos.


    Those that have to pay fees and such : I do wish you luck in this turbulent times. Hopefully you can ride it out until it all normalizes. :)
     
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  6. reuge

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    Binded items is not transferable or resaleble. That effectively take them off the market. Hence, less supply means higher price.

    The only scare resources in a fake economy is time.
     
  7. KikkiJikki

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    As an unlanded player I have the added risk of the penalty of overpricing (10% fee lost and potential forced sale at negligable price if I lose track of time). So if I price to cost I have to consider if it will sell within the 7 days or if I am blowing the vendor fee.

    There are relatively cheap ways to skill crafting. You can salvage looted gear. For alchemy I made lots of cure plague potions since I loot oodles of corpse wax (I have around 1k corpse wax in storage if anyone needs some...)

    I can understand why people are selling below cost and subsidising their skilling. But at some stage the game needs to hang together in an economic sense. Economy is key in a sandpit.
     
  8. KikkiJikki

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    Really not a fan of bound items.
     
  9. Halvard

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    That's not less supply that's no supply or what am I missing?
     
  10. reuge

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    You have to equip to bind. Before that items are tradeble and saleble.
     
  11. kaeshiva

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    Its not just that folks are levelling, though that's a big part of it.
    Its also that the crafting process has a lot of randomness, a lot of risk, and a lot of customization.

    The randomness and breakage mean that getting a nice item with a high + is going to be very expensive in both materials and time. You'll break several items potentially and have to cover that cost.
    The customization means that a lot of people are more likely to go to a crafter for their gear (or craft themselves) in order to select the particular enchants/masterworks desired. They are less likely to buy something from a merchant if they have access to this customization.
     
  12. Krohon

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    A fix that need to be fixed.


    They are learning they craft and sell the "leftovers" for whatever they can get. The masterpieces, they will likely sell well.
     
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  13. KikkiJikki

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    Sorry but no. The masterpieces I checked are also priced under cost. It seems that right now, the only way to consistently make money is to hunt and sell loot to npcs.
     
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  14. kaeshiva

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    Even double enchant/double masterworked stuff (+8-10 range) isn't selling for anywhere near cost, even if you forgot about how many items you had to break to get there and tried to recoup just material cost for the said item, based on market prices for metals/beetles/gold/silver etc. there simply isn't a way to make a profit. That's just how it is. Crafting is for making things, not for making money. I think this is a shame, but I've gotten used to the idea.
     
  15. Church

    Church Avatar

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    in this game the economy is totally broken, not need a master to know it.
    basic economy works with supply/demand.
    in this game for rising up a skill you put on market tons of crafted item, so the price are deflated.
    50 crafter can cover about twice of total game population need.
    other than this the demand of crafting material is high and the price go up but supply gold for buying it are low, so many people prefer to gather himself the resources ( you gather faster 100 silver than farm 6000g for paying it, and 60g x silver are the half of the market price)
     
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  16. kaeshiva

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    Yes but what' s the solution?
    The only way to reduce ore prices would be to significantly increase availability and ease of gathering, which from what we've seen to date, repeated nerfs to every mining area, is clearly not the direction Port is heading.
    There isn't really a way to increase crafted goods, the material costs are already exporbidant and as a crafter I have to spend 90% of my time adventuring to finance the fuels or gathering the materials myself since there's no way I can afford to buy mats and sell anything to recoup my money. I'm not even trying to level anymore, but there's nothing I can make to make a profit except consumables and the time investment on those vs. profit received is so low I'm better off adventuring anyway.
    It saddens me a bit to think this is how its meant to be.
    NPCs paying reasonable prices for crafted goods could alleviate that somewhat but we've also seen with the wolf/bear hat nerf that this isn't the direction we're heading either.

    I'd love to know what the end goal that's trying to be achieved here is, what's the vision for crafting in the scheme of things? Is it meant to just be a huge sink? Or is it in the cards for playing as a crafter/artisan to be a viable career path?
     
  17. Mitara

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    Seriously what did you expect when absolutetly everybody, with no exceptions of imporance, are producing?

    Below cost is also just a phrase. Reality is that the only expenses there is for mining, is the pickaxe and for vendoring, the taxes, which was known beforehand... Below cost? Right..
    Prices for a longsword really should be no more than 1k or so...
     
  18. KikkiJikki

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    I wonder what the effective cost to mine gold and silver is. Those locations are above my combat capabilities so I have no clue. Over the weekend I was paying around 1k for 20 gold ore and 1.3k for silver ingots. Perhaps crafters are overpaying on these key ingrediants? Even so, they would have to be darn cheap to move my enchantments and masterworks into profit zone.
     
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  19. KikkiJikki

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    Yes it would be good to get some exposure to the dev vision for crafting. They may even have already discussed it but latecomers such as I would have missed it.
     
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  20. Cairo Hayden

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    I still think being able to repair primary and secondary durability with COTOs is a big problem. Granted I like the idea if we get a +10 or higher item we want to keep and not at some point say goodbye to it as it's somewhat difficult and expensive to get such an item, but when you have the best gear you wont need anything else. When it gets to the point that everyone in-game gets the best gear available to them, they will just buy COTOs to repair there items and weapon and armor crafting will no longer be needed except for new players or perhaps if SoTA adds new enchants or masterworking to the game that could improve the gear the person already has and to do so is by crafting new items.

    I think Devs need to be thinking long term and not short term because I have a feeling the way it's going the crafters will not be needed anymore soon to come rather then later.
     
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