Cost of Trainning and Skill Reset

(from Sota side)

Like i write it earlier atm You can get up to 2k/min extreme luck, 1k/min with huge luck , without luck 250-500 per minute

 

I wouldn't be against the first point in any skill being more expensive. That would make getting a new skill feel like a bigger advancement than training an existing one.

 

Thank you Darkstarr and Chris!

 

One thing is certain. We will not be able to afford testing different builds.

 

DarkStarr if you still feed off the tears of the Avatars, you shall feast well this day m'Liege. For even I have found myself quivering like a baby at the feet of the trainer..... 30k later and I am still not trained to full spec where I was... Cost to buy skills may be one thing but the cost may be a bit too high... smidge? 30k and not even half trained... ouch?

Edit: I found the positive in this negative!! As I attempt to do with many things... and here it is..

people have been complaining that Crafting has not been getting enough testing. Well we are all now too broke to train for combat. So we are left with one choice.. craft.. to make money.. Crafting will now get tested!

See, there is always a positive to every negative .. even the ones that hurt.. a lot!

 

DarkStarr! Much respect and appreciation for this! It was obviously just an oversight in logistics...which happens every day in business. What I've learned over the years is that I could always count on making decisions that I didn't always forsee the ultimate unintended impact on my guests/clients...but that it was more important that I did whatever it takes to make it right.

Thanks again!

 

You didn't make gold more valuable, you made skills more costly, and gold more scarce.

This will lower the available gold for the crafters to pay for resources, and consequently diminish the returns for gatherers.

None of this is accompanied by a reduction in lot deed prices, for example, so now home ownership has gone up relatively speaking.

You are making specialization cost prohibitive for a casual player.

By looking at overall gold increases, you are severely penalizing the casual player who doesn't earn that much ...

I had thought this was supposed to be a single player RPG with some multi player functionality, but all of your economy logic is VERY MMO based ...

Also, I think you're sorta putting the cart before the horse, by looking at skill costs, before first finishing out the skill trees.

You will be diminishing testing of various skills, and everytime you need to wipe skills (this IS development still), people will have to spend inordinate amounts of gold, just to get back to par.

If you want players to regard this as a pre-alpha, then your economic models need to reflect that philosophy too, it seems you're trying to fix things, that are only issues in a released game.

 

Just a quick Follow up I spent 30K of my gold and have 294 Skill points left to pu into skills and 10K for my 5th top tier Pole Arm ??? Again this may be OK once we go live as time and money will come more gradually but for the sake of Training and actually working on different skill trees , experimenting, playing around etc. This setup has made it COMPLETLY impossible to work back to the level I was and I will NEVER be able to change back and forth to play Gust ball or ANYTHING else.

Again for Live this sounds solid but for now a serious look needs to be taken and something done.

You are effectively going to kill any testing by ANYONE, I know I had access to a lot of resources but this will WHIPE out anyone.



Come on 30K and have 294 skill points left??

My other big question is WHy does the 5th Skewer cost 10K does going from 3 - 4 - 5th actually mean the skewer hit harder or lasts longer - NOOOO, it is just another card for you deck, or a MINOR boost to the skill soo again WHY does the 5th one cost 10K

Deffinatly not cost benefit effective at any level.

Now perhaps 10K for a Elemental is OK but a 5th card in a combat skill ????? I know work in progress but ????

 

Yes, going to the bottom of any skill tree should have costs and you're right about it being a "big deal"... But how do you want us to test and give feedback on a wide variety of skills and trees if the costs associated with experimenting are prohibitive?

I understand the desire to be more "realistic" in what it takes to train purchase a skill, but the current cost tiers are self-defeating in the sense of wanting us to experiment and report.

In that regard, how about letting us sell points back when we want to try something different? Otherwise, we're being penalized in that regard.

That would allow much more testing..... IMO

 

I do appreciate the concept of increasing cost for skills, and in fact support that. My concern is that tugging a string pulls the whole net. Again, if required XP is increased so that the casual player can expect to have to kill more things and get more loot along the way, then this type of pricing is ok (supposing gear wear and tear is not prohibitive and everyone can only afford the most basic gear.) MMO economics has long been difficult to balance. I appreciate the challenge of the task, and understand that these factors do need to be worked out. Are we in that part of the game cycle? There is a reason most games leave this for beta.

In the end, the Dev team has chosen to launch into this now, for good or ill. So I guess we will see how it transpires. But from where I stand, the net looks a bit skewed.

 

Yes, by grinding, in which this game now becomes a grind-fest, and the social / casual players are now penalized.

Also, this may only be valid for items you loot and sell to NPCS.

If you're trying to reinforce a player driven economy, then you need to consider the time it can take to turn a profit from the resources you gather.

 

You're going to hate this comment, but you probably should have been careful with what you bought. While I had nearly the same number of skill points I only had 55 left after skilling up. I didn't buy the tier 5 skills because I knew I couldn't afford them. If you bought tier 4 and 5 skills up to level 5, well ..........

 

Chris, out of curiosity, do you have the gold per hour (gph) metric segregated by levels, and a "gold per level gained" metric (i.e.: how many mean gold earned one lv1 player before leveled to 2, and then to 3, etc...)? I think those might the most interesting metrics to tune each tier skill value with its intended target level gph (so adjustments made based on the gph caused by high-level chars don't make it impossible for lower levels to level). It should be compensated for the 2x XP boost, though. (In fact, have that in mind for the next wipe: faster leveling means less gold per level, which can (and will) hinder actual development.

Let's see how all this develops ubt, right now, I feel like level-based system+skill point-based tree+skill gold costs do not combine well ("training" loses meaning if, no matter how much you train, you need money to be better in a skill you already know and are practicing everyday... feels forced and fake)

 

You seem to think is a pre-alpha game ... oh wait, it is ?!?!

Talk about putting the cart before the horse ....

The economic logic needs to take a backseat to actually testing, at this stage in development.

 

Good to hear because I've had to resort to turning tricks again at the Kingsport docks. Any news on when this "payment" will be made? Business is slowing down.

 

Guys come'on! What grindfest? When I first played (R18) I got 20 levels in a single sitting and always had enough gold to buy all the skills I could get. Now I'm about level 30, still no problems with gold. This game really lets you level up fast and get a lot of skills quickly with lucrative loot dropping from mere skeletons

I know you all are irritated with the skills wipe because NOW you have to grind quite a bit to re-buy all the skills (or not, as DarkStarr mentioned!). This is alpha, painful wipes happen.

EDIT: Ok so I see the costs have increased. Still, I think it seems reasonable as it was REALLY easy before.

 

This would all be fine for a released game, but for a game in pre-alpha, and where they want to encourage testing and reporting of errors within the skill trees, this is putting the cart before the horse.

Also, whenever they need to wipe the skill points (as they did here, because it IS pre-alpha), this will become a recurring ordeal.

They want players to not gripe about losing progress to wipes, because it is a construction zone, well then developers need to honor that same philosophy in their economic models.

The economic model needs to reflect the pre-alpha status of this game.

 

I agree with Unforgiven2 in that I think you've put the cart before the horse in some respects. I've been at work, and havent had a chance to check things out first hand so I'm not sure what it'll cost me to get my skills back to where they were. But it strikes me as a being a bit early to start working on an economy when all the components of that economy aren't even in place yet. Crafting is not complete, player vendors arent in, and NPC side seems minimal at best. I'd think you'd want to at least have most major components of the economy in place before you start adjusting the dials so to speak to balance the economy.

I also agree that the timing and implementation might have been a bit off - seems like skill wipe would've been best achieved with a full wipe given this new cost sink. Guess I'll have to see for myself when I get home.

 

This would be interesting to see, from my anecdotal experience - there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the loot or resources you get from low level mobs and resources and higher. The only thing I've noticed is that higher level mobs and resources seem to have a higher likelihood of dropping rare resources.