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Crafting Failures

Discussion in 'Crafting, Harvesting, Salvage, & Agriculture' started by Scoots, Sep 10, 2018.

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  1. Scoots

    Scoots Avatar

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    I have given up a lot of time and energy (about a months worth) to collect the mats so I could get items needed , particularly a wand to use in the game and to make my game play better. I gave the items to my guild leader who is a GM in all of the crafting and enchanting specialties. This is because he has been playing this game since it's inception.

    Now I gave him just over 22 +1 Rock Maple wands to make 1 and just 1 half decent Fire wand for me. In all of this he tried 20 times in a row for the third enchant of a 50/50 chance, this is 20 times in a row and failed every time.

    I do not understand why someone that has been doing this for so long and cannot get past the 3rd enchant. I can see maybe the 5th one...…. yes the 5th enchant. How could they even get to the 4th if they cannot pass the 3rd.

    This is unreal and really a waste of my time, that I did in farming the mats then so on for this. not to mention his time in failing over and over and over 20 times and more.
     
  2. Elrond

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    Im sorry about your troubles... Crafting is ''difficult'' and very frustrating ... i craft ALOT ... and everytime i finish a crafting sesion with enchants and mw i feel like throwing my pc out of the window . ...i make myself promise not to craft again..a week passes and i forget the terrible system we have i give it another shot and again same '' drama '' .

    Imagine succeding after 20 fails and getting some crappy enchant like weapon durability or minor focus and major health it happens ALOT... From what i gathered from my vast crafting experience ...they just assigned the bad rolls to certain gear ..if you make heavy armor 95% of it will be with dex and int instead of str...if you make wands 95% of them will have str and dex instead of int...and so on...

    Its gotten worse with recent releases... they tossed crafting to the back of the line...last improvements for enchants and mw were ..never...they planted this system and we been forced to go with it no matter how much we complained about it.

    The enchanting pool is so big now ....crafting something decent is extremely hard .... to give you an example i made 10 bronze plate chests yesterday was aiming for some with death resist and str...out of 50 enchants ( includes failures too) i got 0 death resist rolls ...3 major STR ...rest of 40 plus were junk enchants that ruined 90% of chests i made.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  3. Eyonis

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    I feel your pain.
    Signed up for this game mostly for the crafting part, but now i am getting very, very frustrated. 22 tries with 25% success chance: 22 failures. 100%! OK, 25% is low but then 18 tries with 71%: 12 failures! Wtf?!
    This is happening consistently since i joined the game few months ago. There is no way i can be convinced the success rates displayed by the game are correct.
     
  4. Scoots

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    So the questions remain.... When or ARE they going to do something about this?
    We need more players to post here and voice their opinions on this so they don't feel like we are the only ones complaining about this issue that is so ongoing...….
     
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  5. tinman_n8

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    This is one of the reasons I stopped playing the game. This has been posted about for years, but the developers continue to insist this is part of their design and can't be changed without ruining the balance of the game. But even so I'm glad this is being brought up again, as it seems lately the developers have begun changing some of the foolish and frustrating parts of the game that in the past they defended as part of their design.
     
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  6. Sentinel2

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    As I understand it, crafting was to get some love in an upcoming release. Crafting specialization should help with some of this. I'm not saying it's the silver bullet. However I think it will help.

    It's not like the dev's don't know we have concerns with crafting :)
     
  7. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Three things:
    1. The PRNG in the game works as designed.
      (As an increasingly frustrated Chris have told us again and again over the years.)
    2. However, Perception eats Reality for breakfast, and the Perception of any system with high loss/win that is implemented with close to truly random will run into bad streaks and our wetware's Loss Aversion will end up being quit-rage inducing, like the crafting system we have.
    3. I therefore have advocated for years that they should A) fudge the dice , and B) allow for hedged bets.


    Searching my history here:

    The case for fudging the dice since the human wetware isn't designed to cope with critical RNG type of situations:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...s/rng-are-working-properly.97513/#post-859868
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...s/rng-are-working-properly.97513/#post-861880
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...are-working-properly.97513/page-3#post-862090
    Here are some of the vids I use to add weight to my argument:






    They are all interesting in their own right so I recommend them regardless as diversion, but they also pinpoint what is the root cause of the frustrations of the current crafting system. It kinda goes against our human wetware.



    Here was some other suggestion I had from another RNG topic that unfortunately got censored about the hedged bets:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...uman-psyche-extra-credits.106783/#post-921235
    Pay in full to get average result
    It's frustrating having no control over the end result. But what if you can pay in full to skip the RNG roll? Where the UI would tell you the exact result.
    Say you have a chance of 20% for exceptional, 10% fail and materials to make 10 swords. Due to the RNG streaks it's kinda rare to get the expected 2 exceptional out of 10 result. Instead 0-4 is kinda common.
    But what if you could pre-load the material and press the [Average Result] button? So that given material for ten swords you'd ALWAYS get 2 exceptional, 7 normal and 1 fail. No roll.
    Where the average result would always round down to the player's disadvantage. So with a 20% exceptional and 10% fail if you load it with material for only four swords the result would be 0 exceptional, 3 normal and 1 fail. But since you'd know that from the UI you could either load it up to 5, or simply take your chances normally.
    So the net result is the same (or little less due to rounding) it takes the same amount of time, it removes the same number of resources (or slightly more due to rounding) but it becomes up to the player to take a chance or play it safe.​
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  8. Scoots

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    If things are not changed not only have we lost a lot of really good players because of it but we will continue to loose more. From what I have been hearing there is a dire need growing for a good player base, well Dev's this is NOT one of the good ways to gain new players....even if it is the way Chris wants to have it. As shown to us in this game we all cannot have what we want. Is it or is it not what the player base wants to make things grow, I also know that yes there has to be a modicum of what the programmers can do as well but hey it can't be all one sided or there will never base.

    Yes World of Warcraft was a winky game in the end but think of it realistically. Look at the fan base it had and still has as well as how big UO was and still is, all of that compared to how many players we have and how many we have already lost.....
     
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  9. Anpu

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    What should the 3rd enchant chance be then? 100%?
     
  10. Elrond

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    The problem is crafting system is based only on loss... to sustain the economy ...make sure people keep buying tons of materials just to get 1 good piece. This can/should be changed to improvement and loss ...by that i mean allow more materials to be invested in a piece of gear to alter the outcome or to improve a stat and add to it a probability of failure.
     
  11. kaeshiva

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    At enchanting level 139 (note: this is enough experience invested to grandmaster enchanting nearly FIFTY TIMES OVER) the success rate on the 3rd try, with the artifact, is 52%.

    I have been saying for two years that this is absurdly too low for the amount of investment the skills required. Taken in combination with the RNG - well, you're looking at dozens if not hundreds of attempts required. Non-crafters have no concept of the amount of waste that goes into this system - when people approach me for custom gear work, and they want a set of armor with say, strength on every piece - and I say right, come back with 500 bronze ingots, they think I'm kidding. Sadly, that's just the way of it.

    You have to pass the exceptional chance (again, far too low at grandmaster levels, grandmaster should make quality items more often than not, should only get a nonexceptional on like, a critical failure).
    You then have to pass the success chances - again, this maxes out at 95% no matter how much xp you pour into it, so there's always "risk"
    You then have to pass the RNG - if you're looking for two specific masterworks and two specific enchants on say, a bow, that has an option pool of 17-18 things, your chances are at <1%. And it simply gets worse from there.

    Any failure in this process tanks the durability of the item, and more than 1 failure pretty much means its done, not usable, or wont last long enough to be worth anything.

    Crafting, sadly, is less about skill, less about effort or player time investment, and is 99% about how much money you want to throw at it to end up with usable gear. That will last you a couple months, before you need to replace it.
     
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  12. Mangar

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    Highly agree with above post of Kaeshiva. I've been at this since the beginning and the number of failure dramatically outnumbered success for those 3rd Ench/Mast and I've done 1,000s.

    ALSO, THERE IS A 4TH & 5TH possibility for Masterwork & Enchanting here is where this completely becomes a Colossal Failure. The chance for me on 4th is 17% & 8% on 5th. You think I would ever risk a good item that actually made it through 3rth Ench or Mast with a 17% success chance, you gotta be an idiotic or drunk.

    Now IF the 3rd chance gave dramatically more Stat or skill (say 30 - 40%) than this would kinda make sense, but it's VERY little you go from 6.8 on a stat to 7.0, please it's a joke.
    ALSO, just look through all the crap that is for sale out there and maybe 5-7% has 4th Ench/Mast and that is because it was a crap item that rolled bad stats to begin with and crafter said Who Cares, so he went for it and got lucky.
    The 5th Ench/Mast you can forget about it's a total joke, I have made 3 in my carrier at this and again it was due to just saying whatever..

    This system gives very little control & reward for time put in..
    Very bad for New guys starting crafting in SoTA, it raises blood pressure, causes involuntarily eye twitches & broken furniture, please Be Advised.
     
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  13. Cear Dragon

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    There have been two occasions where I have failed 4 times in a row with a 7% chance to fail.

    (0.07)^4 = 0.00002401
     
  14. OzzyOsbourne

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    Going up in crafting skills that give these multiple choices should also increase in size just like glyphs, at 80 you get 6 choices per success :)
     
  15. Scoots

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    This can also be altered by making the basis of crafting so that the better you get with your skills the better the piece will be as well as your skills increase the more options will be available to each crafter to make better and stronger pieces. This would in the long run be a draw to other players that are looking for a game based on their skills instead of something that is based on someone else's Ideas.
     
  16. Scoots

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    The 3rd and further attempts should be based on the crafters expertise in the craft + the % durability of the crafting tool as well as + the type of farmed goods being used in the item being crafted.

    This should be a given if you don't know this then what are you doing crafting ?
     
  17. sappersteel76

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    This has been a pervasive problem since Beta! I am looking forward to specialization in Crafting!
     
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