Crafting Mistake

I think its a mistake to make any avatar capable of making anything. There is no "my crafting is better than yours" in this game. Why would i go spend stupid amount of gold on weapons and armor if i can just make it myself? Or have a Friend make it for me?

crafting seems counter productive? Last thing i heard from the devs in their videos was all of us can make the same thing there is no better than other. So if i train my skill up in blackmithing and train up in fighting then i really dont need you to make me anything since i myself can make whatever i need to fight with or in. We wont need crafters for goods when we can make them ourselves. Yours will not be any better than theirs. So now we have lost the need for crafters, in the game.

We really need some unique-ness to make vendors special. To this day i dont understand why the game is designed that way. Honestly if i was a crafter i would be upset about this.

 

There is supposed to be some economy rebalance, which people will be at the point where they have to do decide whether it's worth collecting resources and make stuff themselves or just buy from someone else.

We won't get the real supply and demand until persistence when people do things for real this time because there will be no wipes.

Making it impossible for individuals to craft anything unless they specialize for it would only benefit large guilds that pool resources and share among members, so it may not solve anything.

As of how it is right now, the benefit of pushing the crafting skill further is that you will have higher chance to get a successful masterwork or enchantment and they may be readjusted to make lower success chance for low skill crafters.

 

Just because all the ingredients are the same doesn't mean the end results will be the same... there will be economic considerations, varying maintenance and repair services, and some folks will just be more fun to deal with than others.

I'm hoping we get a chance to implement a makers mark... and maybe once crafters start topping off their skills - Portalarium may (hopefully) do something to mix things up.

 

well i dont think there is one guild out there that doesnt have thier own crafters, so no we will not need to go to anyone else to get stuff, do you think i would pay a higher price just because it has your mark on it? (never gonna happen) when my crafter can make the same thing??? Peoples names on products are not that important unless its better than what anyone can make!

 

People may consider buying a set of coconut bra made by "Arabella's Secret" or a cane made by "Budner's Schlongsnaker" over other generic brands out there.

 

Yes i could understand that from an RP point of view (its great for RP). So ill accept that, but from a damage, better weapon or armor, or something special to make it work for you whatever your style is its pointless to not have Unique Items, that are better than the generic.

 

When the dust settles, and time has gone on, there will be the ones that don't mind farming the mats to have a guildy/friend make their item for them but there is that chance it will not be that great and your stuck with that item you had made. By then you will have the gold to just be able to buy the +3 off a vendor you know is a master craftsmen.
Because there will be far fewer master craftsmen then there will be of farmers ,and even more of the people that don't like crafting or farming that will just buy what ever they want out right. This is where the market comes in for the ones that spent the time and money to master their craft.

There will be some items that not all can make due to the fact that the recipes are drop only (as stated by the dev's), and there will be other rare recipes that come up in the game as we go along.

 

Sooo.... @blaquerogue how would you change what we currently have in the way of crafting that would make sense to you ?

 

Also, just because the game mechanics allow an Avatar to make anything they want does not mean they will...not everyone is going to put in the time and effort to become GM, so there will always be a market, as some Avatars would rather do other things than Crafting.

 

I think items made should be either more damaging, or more protective, and you would have to focus only on crafting to make the best weapons out there. Crafters would be more necessary in the game, then you would have to go to certain ones to get the best equipment. Making crafters more needed.

If i focus on combat i should be good at that and need those crafters to restock, fix or sell me items, that i cannot make due to not focusing on crafting.

 

OK, collect all the materials needed, craft your gear and then masterwork/enchant it to your liking.

 

I'm not true at all.
Sorry to inform you but any and all gathers / Farmers will become Craftsmen. Its just because of how the Experience system works, all the farmers out there will build up huge amounts of production Xp pools, and at that point its a simple step to shoot right up to GM crafter in any skill you want. As long as you have the XP in your pool to allow you to do it. And since gathering is pretty much the only way to get production XP this is exactly what's going to happen.

Can I take a shot at this one?

1. Simply combine the experience, so we all have 1 pool of Xp to chose from, this will force you to spend your XP on either becoming a crafter, or a adventurer as you see fit. (that's the first step)
2. Track the amount of XP spent on Adventuring skills, and crafting skills, offer bonus's to one set at the cost of a negative to the other. after a certain amount of points are spent. (IE) select either crafter or Adventure play style at level 75 , get a 10% bonus on XP spent in your style, but suffer a -10% cost if you decide to spent points on the other. (make players decide what they want at some point though character development).

That's with out to much thought, But since we all the ability to do everything right now, Blaquerogue is 100% correct, we will all do everything our self, and not need any one for anything. It will be 1 giant game of selfishness,

 

~Ultimately the Avatar is a Very Lonely Person~

The union of all will always be counted as "one"
~Time Lord~

 

As a crafter myself, I have given this much consideration.

First off, you are looking for rare or unique items. Rare and unique to me is having a weapon or armor piece with amazing enchants and/or masterwork to it. I have a +8 chest piece right now as an archer and compared to the previous piece I had with no masterwork or enchantments on it was complete junk compared to this one I have now. To make this kind chest piece requires burning through a lot of resources and time. It takes time to farm the goods and craft it(assuming you didn't just burn through all your materials trying to max enchant or masterwork it and now have to go farm some more!). Now granted, you can go buy the raw material to make them yourself and save the time of farming but this also requires a lot of money and there is still NO guarantee your item won't break attempting to masterwork or enchant it to max. If you are looking for rare and unique items, the time and effort you spend crafting such item to there max potential of masterwork/enchantment bonus is your rare and unique item you are looking for. Many people will not have or take the time or even have the patience to make a piece of that quality and would rather spend extra money on it rather then cry watching it break.

 

Its going to take a lot of time and commitment come r32.

Firstly, no more xp bonus. Then you have ALL skill prerequisites that have been raised, for crafters and adventurers. Then skill decay. The system, when working properly, will allow for a 'jack-of-all-trades' but will prevent a 'master-of-all-trades'

Over time, you could build a fairly rounded character, but its an awful lot to do alone. There will be a market, even for your "failures".

 

I agree, but my perspective is a little different. In every fantasy themed persistent multiplayer online game I've played in the past 20 years, the prices that other players set (or that end up being set by market controlling cartels) are always so high that I can't afford NOT to make it all myself.

An example: I have 1000 gold. A single gem costs 2000 gold. A single gem in a piece of armor costs 5000 gold. A whole set of armor costs over 30,000 gold. Ok, I still only have 1,000 gold. But guess what? If I went and harvested it all myself? It would maybe cost me 1000 gold in fuel and consumable items to make it myself. If it didn't cost 30 TIMES as much to make myself, I wouldn't make it myself. The reason(s) why it costs 30 times as much are a discussion for another thread.
Additionally, for Shroud, given players can play the entire game in Single Player offline mode or Single Player online mode, it could be argued that for those modes, doing it all yourself is how the game is designed.
Sure, you could say for single player online: but vendors!!111! Sure, but they're optional. You could play the entire main story line through and never look at the inventory of a public or player vendor. And in Single Player Offline mode, you can't look at the inventory of a public or player vendor.

So, put simply, it being 1 giant game of selfishness is working as designed for 2 out of the 4 game modes as those modes are single player.
As Cairo mentioned, paying thousands, dozens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of gold for items that just decay and break isn't going to be popular. And I'm all for item breakage. I just think that harvesting & crafting is currently too difficult, throttled & punitive to support item breakage the way it's intended. If every masterwork attempt didn't require 20 silver ore, or there was even a metal scraps version of the silver ingot recipe? I might be convinced the entire goal of the system isn't sadistic punishment, but alas, that's not the case today.

 

Were have you played with these settings?
How can you say any of this is true?
Yes we all have read jack of all trade lines, we all have heard about skill decay,,, and I don't believe in any of it, since everything the Devs have put out so far is wrong and contradicting to any previous statements.

Sorry I'm not drinking the Kool Aide.

 

QA server for R32 has been up since Friday.

 

Not all gear is going to be the same, the enchants and masterworks are random chance. to get EXACTLY what you want, is going to take literally years. I have 105 in enchanting, and only have a 12% chance on the 4th enchant, so the 5th is impossible for me right now. I have 100 in masterworking carpentry, blacksmithing and tailoring, and that is only an 11% chance for the 4th. I have 50 in each specific masterwork and 101 in the cloth. If you only knew the immense amount of time and resources needed to achieve what you are saying, you would also realize the ones who focus on crafting and gathering, will not be as good of fighters as it takes away from time playing gaining adventure exp. If what you are saying is true, you go find me a crafter that can do what I can do. I can make any item with 23% chance of exceptional ( not hard ), and can enchant at 95%, 83% 45% and 12%, and can masterwork anything, with the new bonuses, at 95%, 82%, 44% and 11%. If you look at my post about the new abilities that come from the new masterwork abilities, you will notice there is lots of new abilities and to get exactly what you want, at a 5/5 enchant masterwork, is going to be nearly impossible.

 

And this is why Random needs to go away, so all us crafters are not simply lottery wheels, ( insert materials, pull lever, see what you get).

@Jezebel Caerndow
1st of all, just let me say. WOW, and great job. (you are giving me new hope)

1. What are your adventuring skills at?
2. How did you build up the 8+million Production points, I'm assuming you did tons of Mining, but theirs also a lot of other gathering you had to have done also.