Crown store and new players leaving

Discussion in 'Crown Store' started by Rygen, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Well... Yeah. But that's kinda like being mad that you have to buy food, and then also being mad that even if somebody gave you the food for free, the owner of the grocery store the food came from had to pay property taxes so the store could exist in the first place.

    I can only really speak for myself, but I suspect almost nobody views the situation the way you are. They get their deed, and unless they read the manual, probably don't even realize the difference between deed types, because likely the first open lot they encounter is going to be in a PoT where their deed works. Either way, I have a hard time seeing a lot of people looking at the 200ish PoTs on the map and feeling this amount of rage that people had to pay for those, instead of, "wow, that's a lot of possible places to live." They might have some concern over a potentially finicky governor evicting them, but since governors are usually competing for residents, this almost never happens.
     
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  2. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Additionally, I'd like to apologize for my tone last night. I had a long rough day, and probably shouldn't have been interacting with new players when I was that short on patience.
     
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  3. Rygen

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    Okay. I'm gong go again address several of my points, since they seem to be lost here.

    For starters: You are the minority of gamers that see no problem dropping $1k on games. I happen to be one of them, but the reality is, most players that play free to play games get very pissy whenever they feel like they are being forced to spend money. However, many free to play gamers will eventually start dropping down real money on a game after they have played it for some time. If SotA is to grow it's player base, it needs to appeal to the majority of F2P gamers, not the tiny 0.1%. So you were an early backer, awesome. You have your toys and special gear nobody else can get. But now it is time to do what is necessary to let the game grow.

    Statistics: From Feb 2019 to to Oct 2020, the player count has dropped by an avterage of 2.8% month in total. Of those online, 9% are new players. You can see these the numbers here, and use math https://shroudoftheavatar.net/how-many-people-play-shroud-of-the-avatar Even with the new players, the total player count is falling. New players aren't staying in the game, and old ones are leaving, that is what the stats say: The game is loosing 11% of it's new and old players a month, on average.

    COTS Drops: New players don't get COTS drops in the first 30 hours of game play. So, as mod drops, they don't exist for new players, it isn't an option, and therefore, not relevant to bring up. The idea that there are two class of deeds gives the player the implies a F2P game that tries to force players to pay real money for the game, which annoys 99% of

    The game devs can always expand on towns to add more row lots. There are some standardized maps they use, adding a side road that has 100-200 row lots would add tons of new housing if new players wanted a lot. Not all new players want a lot though, they'd rather rent a room first, but there is no easy way to do this, and where you'd expect to do this, and NPC inn, you can't. Making instanced inn rooms in large towns that have no, or very limited housing/rooms rented below 50g/day, would get around the limited housing problem. Talk to the NPC innkeeper, ask about rooms in town, it'll give you a list of other rooms or let you enter your on room you are already renting, or give you the option to rent a room if none are free in town. Instant unlimited housing, just a tiny room, but it is something. To avoid abuse, just set strict rules for alt accounts, and limit the number of deeds that can be owned per town, and in total.

    So what about POTs, they're great sure. Some things should only be allowed in POTs and not NPC towns. That'll add another incentive to live in a POT, no decorating standards, besides maybe making giant phalluses on your front lawn or spelling out some profanity. As before, a medieval atheistic should be maintained in non-POT towns for house exteriors. I am also a fan of having row lots start off as a single one room hut for some NPC towns. This will keep them low profile for backwater towns that are easier to expand the map on. Players would be able to upgrade their house if they wanted to. Many would probably opt to later to pay real money for large basements, but the difference is they no longer would have the impression that all in-game housing is a sinister way to extort money from players.
     
  4. CICI

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    sota is a sandbox game cant tell me how to deco even in a npc town =D
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I guess we're just going to disagree. I don't feel that new players perceive housing as something that costs money. You get a free lot for completing a beginner area. You don't get to use it anywhere you want, but there are literally thousands of lots that can be claimed with it. The row deed comes with a free house, and there are craftable options as well. I think you're projecting your unusual perception onto any new player that doesn't hang around. Sadly, there are a lot of other things that drive players away. I don't think that lack of free PA deeds is one of them.
     
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  6. Cora Cuz'avich

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    But I'll grant you, as CiCi just proved, a lot of PoTs are friggin' hideous. I think the devs did learn on this one; going forward, NPC towns will not have player housing.
     
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  7. Joe Zhudarak

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    SOTA is not a game with instant gratification, you need to farm, evolve and maybe reach the end game in a couple of months if you play properly
     
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  8. Rygen

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    That wasn't my argument. My argument was the housing system looks like it is forcing players to shell out real money to have space they can put their own storage containers in and other goodies. If it was a true sandbox game, then a player would be able to plop a house or town down anywhere on the map without having to pay extra for the privileged. Anything in a free to play game that looks like it is trying to force money out of players is a huge negative for many, and this game can't afford to be loosing players at the rate it is.
     
  9. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Owning towns was never intended to be something everybody had access to. That was always a "spend a giant chunk of cash" deal. It would have to be, or it would never work.
     
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  10. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    Hi Rygen,

    It's nice to see a new player so passionate about the game.

    You are missing some information that may change your view on this 'sinister way to extort money from players'.

    POTs were not originally part of the game's design. They were added by request of the players. If it was indeed a sinister plot, it was self inflicted. No one was forced to buy POTs, everyone who did so, myself included, did so willingly and paid the prices that were asked.

    You bring up an excellent point about the new player's perception, however, honestly, even the few that might have that perception usually have much bigger issues with the overall new user experience that they never make it far enough to discover any angst about the housing situation. Housing is plentiful, deeds are free, you aren't getting the response you desire, because it just isn't an issue finding a place to live. POT owners practically beg people to come live in their POTs and are generally more than willing to please a new resident. Any new player can follow the quest guides online and have a free village deed in a few days or weeks. Houses can be crafted and are plentiful and cheap.

    Your more valid point is on the population, but here again, the missing information is, that we originally started with around 50-60k 'backers' of the game who all bought pledges and game access at one level or another. Again, everyone did so willingly, anyone could have bought the lowest pledge which was equal to the cost of any similar game out there. We have lost tens of thousands of original backers, and countless new players who came to the game at one point or another. A 2.8% monthly decline is nothing. It's probably actually an improvement by just looking at the numbers.

    Your points are well intentioned, they just are dwarfed by the facts of the past. For better or worse, it is what it is. Everything you speak of has been argued to death many times over, and at times when it was actually important and serious. All we can do is continue to play it as it is, and look forward to the increase in productivity from the developers to manifest into a better product that can change that 2.8% decline into a 2.8% gain.

    Your passion and caring is welcome, don't be mad if we don't seem more excited or interested in your points. It's sort of like you are letting us know that the front yard is on fire, when the house burned down a few years ago. We hear you, we get your point. It didn't change then, it's not going to change now in any dramatic fashion. We are still another year or two of development and bug fixes to get to the point where the population is going up instead of down. Until then, just play, learn the game, enjoy what you like, and don't sweat the other things.
     
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  11. Bayard

    Bayard Bug Hunter

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    Even though you don't HAVE to spend money to get a lot deed and home, the PERCEPTION of many/some new players is that you do. And as much as we hate the saying, "Perception is Reality" many new players perceive this to be true and leave. Rygen's initial impression is proof this happens. I'm working on a way in Soltown to help fix this problem but have no idea if it will be successful.
     
  12. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    @Rygen
    PS: If you need a place to live, I will gladly give you an actual (not the quest one) POT Row Lot Deed and any spot in my POT that you wish to place it.

    I agree that perception is reality, but I think the reality is that most new players have much bigger misconceptions that keep them from playing than the housing issue. Any quick google search, or asking in game should quickly let them know the truth about how easy and free housing really is. If they can't take the time to learn that info (just like you would in any game) then they weren't ever going to be a long term player anyway. IMO
     
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  13. Cora Cuz'avich

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    You're aware that's a player owned town, right? That really kinda takes the wind out of argument. They pretty much all work that way, You only need to ask permission if the governor sets the lots to Restricted.
     
  14. Rygen

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    Oh I do know that's a POT, I even though about buying a POT one myself as it was well within what I've dumped on some Free to Play games I enjoy... but I still have a problem with the idea there is no real hosing option that isn't free of real world money. There needs to be housing options that don't involve even the appearance of requiring someone to open their wallet to get.

    Will I get a POT? Not after I saw the game usage statistics, there's no way I'd even consider investing any more in this game than what I've put in until the declining user count issue gets resolved.
     
  15. Mugly Wumple

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    Your argument is ridiculous. You don't want to play a game that someone has had to pay for. You know there are a handful of developers that need to make a living.
     
  16. Burne

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    i live in outland welcome center, and ive spent way too much on the game, imo. im new as well.
    I have several issues with the game too but now that im working a lot.. i cant seem to invest time in working the farms i had made... (grr the timers!!?!?) but thanks alphaine for making the huge farm.

    but its useless if i cant be on @ xxxx time.. just one of many issues with it.
     
  17. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I'm with Mugly. You're all over the place on this. What would you have, free PoTs for everyone with ads? By your logic, that smacks of pay to win because advertisers had to support the game with their dollar-votes so it could exist. If PoTs weren't a thing and didn't cost money, there'd be no game for you to be this upset over.

    I'll grant you, you're technically correct. Yes, for the players-at-large to have free housing, some players once had to pay to purchase towns. I suppose you could be right, and hundreds of players log in for the first time every week and bail immediately, never to return, because it rubs them the wrong way that somebody once spent money on this game so that they could have free housing. But given that nobody has ever showed up and given that as a reason for leaving, and given that it takes a particularly obtuse way of looking at the game to see it that way, I don't think it is the case.
     
  18. Gridseed

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    I am offended by you being offended by my lights :( i am poor in RL and i enjoy this game and what i got in this game and traded from nothing to get this far. And if you ask for help ingame then i'm willing to help. i'm in Soltown to show other things you can get from Noiva and to help with anything so just ask :) sorry i did not play UO but this is me and i add to the game. If you see me in game just say hi :) and i will offer you some recipes or free Dragon Stew or a few lvl or two on the house :) But seriously sorry to offend and if you want to vote on me taking my lights down then do a vote and i will abide by the decision :)
     
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  19. Barugon

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    This thread is just going around in circles.
     
  20. Cora Cuz'avich

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    But I'm not dizzy!
     
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