Currency purchacing in shroud and percieved loss of value

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Doctorface, Sep 27, 2019.

?

What do you think?

  1. Good point,the coto buying needs to change

  2. It's fine the way it is.

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  1. Bryce Pallaton

    Bryce Pallaton Avatar

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    I wholeheartedly agree. I believe the only solution is for players to refuse to buy Heritage items. Which sucks, because I wanted to buy the specimen vats, which are now available - but only as Heritage items. So I have to decide: Do I want to try to send a message to Portalarium, which they are not likely to receive and less likely to understand, or do I get specimen vats?

    Unfortunately, I need more information to make that decision. If I knew many others were not buying Heritage items on that basis alone, it would make it easy for me to "join the choir" and not buy. But if I knew that very few held this stance (which I suspect), it would be silly and self-defeating to not buy.

    So, what do I do? What would you do?
     
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  2. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    I think the heritage item issue needs its own thread to get more people to notice it.
    But, I have no intention of buying any of them. It's not clear to many players that they cannot be traded and do cause issues with community events. I've had at least a dozen people buy heritage items as donations for the town to only find they have wasted their cotos for items they cannot use.
     
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  3. Sulaene Moon

    Sulaene Moon Avatar

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    Just buy the thing! If they stop the Heritage items you can ask for an exchange, but if you hold off you might not see them again until next year around this time.
     
  4. Fenrus MacRath

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    I think we should start to look at the huge deflation of in game currency values vs Real money prices. It is really quite alarming that about 1 year and 1/2 ago gold prices started to tank from $140 per million IGG and the have been in a plummet ever since. Before I quit the game, I could easily buy gold for $35/ million from several different sources. No idea what its down to now. The point being IGG keeps getting pumped in driving the cash value down. It is much better to buy a million gold and convert that into crowns from one of the in game vendors than to buy from Port. That being said, why would anyone spend serious money to buy digital media on a game that is in real jeopardy of going dark? I think between that and the huge numbers of die hard players finally calling it quits (Me included) , and almost no retention from looky lou new players,Port will either need to give up control to a money group or shutter up. Too bad too, this game could have been great.
     
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  5. Doctorface

    Doctorface Avatar

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    Yes, please keep the topic on cotos and coto buying for the time being. This is a discussion I think that really needs to happen and the only way to keep it here is to have it stay on topic.

    @Spoon Good god, those pokemon store icons are criminal! I understand the mobile pricing and tactics but shroud isn't a mobile game, it's a pc game that actually takes a fairly decent rig to get to run. It should be priced based on MMO standards NOT mobile standards. As for the other countries currency, I can't speak to those in STO. I do know that I've spent probably three k in a year on STO and maybe 240 on shroud because of the coto prices being so wonky(and other, personal reasons)

    Keep the convo going on topic, I'll pop in when I can but real life stuff is kinda stealing my attention.
     
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  6. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    I don't think you can have a useful discussion of COTOs and COTO buying without also discussing WHY people would want to buy COTOs in the first place and how they're going to use them. Without looking at the user's desired end result -- and whether the money spent will effectively enable that result or not -- the COTOs themselves are just meaningless numbers.
     
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  7. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I'd love to have Crowns go this direction. 1=100, plus small bonus as you buy more. And add smaller ones too; if I could snag 100 for $1, just to afford some small item that's on sale, I'd do it without thinking. $5 for 500 was very popular in the Add-On Store. Sure, it doesn't make Port much, after processing fees, but it's a foothold, and leads to more.

    What he said was they wanted to re-introduce expired items, without affecting the aftermarket for the original items. Same as with the heritage prosperity items. That's fine, I think. However, the obsidian items and bonfires, which don't have a non-heritage version, are abominations in this system.
     
  8. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/486719041, starts at 47 min in: "That's part of the reason.... There's some other reasons too, which is honestly just trying to make sure everything we do in Shroud is sustainable from a business side of things, that having a secondary market for player-crafted items is good, but having a secondary market for those items is not great....Making them no-trade means that there's not as much exchange on players leaving... for the average user, does not negatively impact them at all..."

    I think he's wrong about making expired items Heritage not affecting the aftermarket, but that doesn't bother me. But the new deco items... they've been quite clear that they THINK the deco pallette is going to solve any problems that way. And it won't, because they're not recognizing all the problems. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what he's saying, perhaps he's just stating it badly or in a non-Darkstarr-approved way. But what I'm hearing is that we can expect more new Heritage decos to come -- I agree that they're a bad idea and will result in fewer sales, but if THEY thought so, they wouldn't still be tagged as Heritage.
     
  9. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    Apparently the problem is for that to work, you need a form of payment with low overhead. That works for mobile, because they just get tacked onto the monthly phone bill, but credit cards want a bigger cut of a small transaction.

    My understanding (which may not be correct) is they did that to bring back items which had already been declared expired (or were one-offs for telethon rewards), as Vault and Heritage items. I also understand locking log-in rewards items, because with free accounts, someone could just create a bunch of accounts. (But I think they should make such items upgradeable to trade with crowns, just like the "free" property deeds.)

    If they are locking items from the crown store that are NOT Vault or Heritage, I would appreciate if someone could list some for me. I also think they should not be locking items from the monthly "rewards program", since money went into them. (I see something about obsidian items, okay, that's one category, but were they previously telethon rewards?)

    I think those were an expired holiday item. It's really bad with holiday items. At first they would make similar items each year, so the 2017 wreath would be different from the 2018 wreath, but both would still be wreaths. Then they made other items and went the easy way out with Heritage, instead of (for instance) creating new different specimen vats.

    That's a completely different matter. In-game gold has been generated faster than it can be sinked, or even used, which devalues it against COTOs, which are more aligned with real-world money. This combines with more uses for COTOs (property deed upgrades, dungeon upgrades) that increased the demand, and also with a preference to buy COTOs with plentiful in-game gold, rather than paying money to buy new COTOs. (note that Port gets paid for the COTOs either way, and when they are used they are gone)

    As has been mentioned, credit card fees are an overhead that makes transactions below $9 or so undesirable. The rewards program being a recurring billing probably somehow reduces the fees too.
     
  10. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    That's the problem, they are locking items as Heritage that shouldn't BE Heritage, new items that don't have tradable versions already in the game.
     
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  11. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Maybe they should take Bitcoin, it would make transactions of any size possible.
     
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  12. Drilikath

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    After waiting all day. I was able to patch. I log in to find the ONLY option for the POT water changers where heritage for $30 for the pair. Now say later on down the road i want to sell my POT. What can i do with these pot changers now. Keep them in my bank forever. because i can not place them in my own house as deco.

    This POT Water Changer is Confusing, as I checked chris stream from the previous night, and he said you have to GIVE the changer to the pot owner... and they where giving away a saltwater pot changer with a $100 crown purchase. How is that possible?

    This is keeping it on topic with the OP, as this is what is causing sales to fall. I use to spend $100-200/month when i could direct purchase items from the store. Now that i have to buy coto(s), guess how many i have bought. Big Fat 0. I subscribed on a few accounts and that is all they will ever see from me again. I will wait "Years" of accumulating my 900 sub coto until I have enough to upgrade what I need to do in game, as with the coto change and the loss of $1 = 100 coto unless you buy HUGE package. We had the $5 option for so long and only had to spend a few $$ and then they decided to make the game F2P and change coto, and from that point the game has been in the state it is.

    People arguing anytime you say one thing bad about this game, even though the game has MANY issues that have yet to be addressed. But hey lets make some more decor and heritage items.

    If they want coto sales they need to get off this high horse of selling heritage items. Vault items/Bring Backs FINE heritage the crap out of them. I got my rare version sell them a non trade junk version FINE. Lower the price on them too dont care. But as long as all these items are bound they can kiss my ***.
     
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  13. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    I am somewhat aware of that, that's why I said "list them".

    Because they don't have to give it away as a Heritage item? Although I was someone "ehhh?" about the basic idea of giving away POT-only items as a bonus for COTOs.
     
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  14. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    I don't read forums at the same time I have the game open, so no, I'm not going to compile a list of things you could check for yourself (especially since I was trying to keep the thread on-topic -- I consider the principle of Heritage items relevant, but not arguing over whether specific items should be Heritage or not). The bonfire and new Obsidian decos are the ones that caught my attention as things I would have wanted to buy but won't, and no, these are not re-released items.
     
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  15. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Is it because you want to buy the items to sell the items, like buy limited stuff then resell when it's not limited? Or because folks might have buyers remorse and wanna sell what they baught to get gold or some of the cotos back? Im not super sure why this is bad otherwise.

    As far as obtaining the item for yourself, its not really different. Just gotta buy the cotos for IGG then buy the heritage item on the store. The only thing it affects is offloading stuff. So, i suppose yea i wouldnt buy something i wasnt sure i wanted, but if i know im gonna use it, i dont see a reason not to buy it just because it isn't tradeable. After all, RMTing coto shop items was (for some reason) a sore point to some folks in (and out of) this game right?

    If the problem isn't that you cant offload the heritage stuff after you buy it and decide you no longer need/want it then im not sure what the deal is.

    EDIT: someone explained it to me \o/
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  16. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    I think the op makes some good points about COTOs and perceived value. By saying you get a "bonus" for buying more, its better perception than getting penalized for buying less. Its the exact same thing, but how its portrayed makes a big difference. There should be a base value, and getting bonuses for buying more incentivizes buying more.

    For me, the biggest issue isn't the store interface, but the pricing and how the perceived coto value has changed my personal buying habits.

    First, the perception issue:

    So, before - everything on the shop was listed for cash. Every month when all the new stuff came up, it was easy - I'd just go buy it because I like shiny things. This payment of cash for ingame stuff was a straightforward transaction of this-for-that. Nice, a pretty furniture set - 10 bucks, alright, done.
    Now, its listed for Cotos. So you have to kinda try and work out, based on a constantly changing ingame coto rate or different coto package sizes for cash, what does this item actually cost me? And by making me go through that exercise, I often end up rethinking the spend.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the perception from a new player's perspective of having a huge web store of comparatively high priced items was not a great idea either. But, we've not really fixed that problem. If I'm brand new and click on "store" I scroll past the typical currency packages and...WOW, BUNDLES WORTH 7 GRAND, ARE YOU KIDDING ME. (Actual reaction of someone I tried to get into the game). So I mean, getting rid of all the bundles to try and make it look like there's no superexpensive stuff....well, yeah, this didn't work. And I get you have to list those bundles somewhere, but, ....I dunno, maybe make it so you have to log in first or something, at least.

    Which brings me on to the pricing issue.
    Sota is selling digital assets. I understand that these assets require a certain amount of time to develop and implement to the game. There's cost overheads. But after the asset is created, it costs no more to 'manufacture' 100 than it does to make 1. There's no logistics, warehousing, storage, or other costs associated with these items existing. "The whole reason why the currency was multiplied by 100 was so that we could have cheaper things" does not seem to have materialized - there's a few things on the shop for 200 cotos or so, but most things are far, far more.

    So, take the mannequins for example. What the hell, Portalarium. These are actually pretty cool and, if they were priced 1/10th what they are, I probably would have bought a ton of them for the museums, for a dress shop, for a myriad of deco projects. But having a mannequin set cost more than property deeds/housing is just baffling. I honestly, no lie, thought the price was a mistake when I saw it. And I guess people who've wanted mannequins for a long time are buying them, but you're missing out on a lot of sales by pricing digital items far too high. Property deeds I get, that's an investment in the game and there's a limited number of spots (although POTs kinda mitigate this pretty significantly). But some of the pricing of things is just crazy. You've spent the time, you've developed the asset, so..its basic economics here.

    I know that 10 people buying something at $100 works out the same as 100 people buying something at $10, but the difference is that in scenario #2, you have 90 more customers who are buying currency to make a purchase rather than closing their wallets after balking at the price. They're likely to go onto buy more things, or have cotos left over for their next purchase which may require a little topup and you get paid again.

    The other thing that seems to hav fallen by the wayside is, earlier on, almost all new items that were added had two versions: a fancy shop version, and an in-game crafted version. Nowadays we see more and more things added to the shop and less and less crafted/ingame obtainable equivalents. And believe me, I understand the need for revenue coming in, but its disappointing to say the least. I'll go back to the mannequin example - you can craft a basic pose, and buy fancier poses. This is actually doing it right, except you guys accidentally added a zero to the shop price, so I'll just stick with the crafted ones. If the shop ones were more reasonable priced, well, I'd save myself the in-game time/resources and buy them out of convenience alone.
     
  17. kaeshiva

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    For me its 100% about functionality:
    • Can't store it in a box, must go in bank -inconvenient, why would I want a heritage furniture that I can't store in my box of furniture when not currently in use?
    • Can't pick up stuff I've bought with my OWN other accounts, or that my husband has bought on his accounts, or any item that anyone else's account originated the purchase on, despite the fact that we all share lots with full permissions.
    • Can't pick up heritage stuff placed by others on a POT
    In both of the above, yes, you can zap something to the player's bank, but during the decoration process, its very often necessary to put something back in your inventory rather than trying to drag it around, especially with large items or if you're trying to move something a great distance.

    It just creates unnecessary hassle. I think it would be fine for wearables/account unlocks but not for stuff that takes up virtual space.
     
  18. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    This was the excuse, yes. However, credit card charges are like 3% + $0.50 per transaction at most. Patreon takes a transaction fee on top of that, and $1 is still a positive net for users. Yes, they get a much bigger chunk at $9 than they do at $5 or less, but it's still positive.

    Mannequins are a bad example. They are priced as they are due to their hit on rendering, not the cost it takes to make them. They don't want 1000s of these in every town. But that isn't explained anywhere in the Crown Shop, so they just look expensive for no reason.

    I have issues with the pricing of items, most of which should be half the current cost at most, but if things were actually explained and communicated as to why things are the way they are, it would severely reduce the confusion and frustration by many players.
     
  19. Bedawyn

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    This was the original explanation, and I can say for myself that, yes, they do cause a performance hit on my machine. But the facts that they're constantly on sale and that Chris gives them out like candy as prizes rather undercuts the argument that they want to restrict their usage.

    Getting back to currency purchasing...

    Thank you for mentioning the credit card thing, @Browncoat Jayson. I wanted to earlier, but it's been so many years since I dealt with credit card processing that I couldn't be sure the companies hadn't skyrocketed the charges to the point where small sales really were prohibitive in 2019. But I know that it didn't use to be the case -- as you say, a small positive is still a positive. And if you're getting lots of small positives, they add up. Right now, the smallest I can pay is $9 -- and while that's a good price for COTOs, it comes with the baggage of remembering to cancel later, and of being reminded that most of the other "rewards" subscribers get are things I have no interest in, so it's a constant reminder that the devs are making a different game than the one I signed up for. Doesn't lend itself to wanting to give them more money.

    I'm not thrilled with the stream bonuses Chris gives out either. I don't have the stats to say how it actually helps or hurts COTO purchases, but it doesn't feel good.
     
  20. Oakenhammer

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    Actually...

     
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