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Disappointing to have to sell basic crafted goods to merchants at a loss

Discussion in 'Release 55 Feedback' started by Kara Brae, Jul 24, 2018.

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  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Where is a NPC that sells cotton?
     
  2. Elrond

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    No Idea.

    Here is the NPC in my town selling mandrake , nightshade, garlic all stuff people plant and try to compete with ...think you can sell mandrake for more then 4 gold ?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Barugon

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    You said that NPC merchants sell cotton for 6 each.
     
  4. Elrond

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    If im wrong poor choice for example .. i remember a day when they did ..always bought from players .... the principle stands even if the example was wrong ... as shown with the mandrakes and other farmed goods.
     
  5. Barugon

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    The problem with the other items is that they're used for things other than crafting too.
     
  6. Elrond

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    And why is that a problem ? You think we dont have enough players in the game that can keep the market supplied ? Im not saying my idea is the best or its the only solution but its definetly worth a debate . What do you think the game economy will be improved if players control the reagents, farm market 100 % or not ?( meaning no npc selling these goods only players) And why if yes or no .
     
  7. Barugon

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    If people were able to sell crafted items to NPC merchants for a good amount of gold then why would they craft items to sell to other players? Everyone would just grow and craft stuff to sell to NPCs. Also, I have no interest in playing Farmville or doing exhaustive searches for reasonably priced reagents, so if they took those items off of merchants then I would be done with SotA.
     
  8. 2112Starman

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    I used to load my vendors up with mid range chain at dirt cheap prices and they didnt sell. Like +6 or +8.

    You know the funny thing is that this is what I wear now. I tank in Tears with the +6 or +8 gear I make myself. Ill take my cruddy non maser work stuff that has 25 durability and burn it in there. I roll around with a +8 or +10 bow that I can find someone selling for 1000 gold and slap a life gem on it.

    For normal farming, I can hit any area like even tier 8 Ulfeim with store gear and do just fine.

    It seems like they have really negated the need for really any fancy gear or high level skills in the past 6 months. My adv lvl 70 alt seems to do just as fine as my adv lvl 110 main in most situations.
     
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  9. redfish

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    @2112Starman

    Well I don't know if you were selling what I was looking for in particular or where your shop is, or anything. :/

    But if you could advertise it, and if I did find your shop, and I knew you were a specialized blacksmith or tailor or whatever trade you did I was interested in, and there was a way to drop you a note and say "hey craft this for me", then it would be possible for us to build a buyer-seller relationship I think. And that would be cool, but the game currently isn't structured to help us do that.

    I want do do a more thorough post later on what steps I think would help the devs structure an economy that works for players.
     
  10. oplek

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    We also need more faucets and sinks.

    The wand/stave market is particularly touch since, if you don't wap things with your stick, it never wears out. I've played other games where there's also a time limit on item decay, as well as durability.

    Edit: So I guess what I'm saying is, maybe increase the success rate of masterwork/enchanting, and make items wear out more/faster? House decorations should need to be repaired or replaced too.

    There's too much buildup.
     
  11. Elrond

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    I dont think we're playing the same game ..people already grow stuff and sell it to NPC for x gold amounts (its profitable) and are already crafting and selling to NPC ( tens of thousands of items monthly) only its at a gold loss.... which is the whole point of this topic ..mainly should crafting be profitable and up to what point.

    Ok but the game doesnt consist of 1 player named Barugon ... some people enjoy ''farmville'' .. and a game like farmville in its glory days had like 40 mil montly players .... bringing more '' farmville'' features in sota would be a good thing in my view. So basically you dont want people to make profits from crafting because you dont like to spend time crafting. Thats not a very reasonable point of view.
     
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  12. Cirsee

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    So I can fully support the idea of being able to realistically gather our reagents and crafting mats. I think that would be fun as long as we can get some decent yields or adjust the resources required to craft to match a reasonable time spent gathering or growing. I think that proportion right there is already way off base.

    I think crafting has more issues than just the price of mats or even the player base population. It is extremely time intensive and uses way too many reagents and materials than any other crafting system I have ever been a part of. Then we throw in the RNG and you get another big mess. As a crafter I should be able to either fail or not fail at a specific enchant I want to make. Take out this random result outside of outright failure that goes down as we level. If you have to toss in an RNG, add a random extra temporary bonus if you crit while crafting a higher level enchant; like bonus for a 36 hours of real time on killing wolves or some other damage effect like wands actually casting a spell, or some random virtue added effect (for x time you get a bonus to virtue gain or loss or some other virtue tied benefit) Add discoverable recipes again for some fun and reducing the cost of the increased recipes out there. I know these things get discovered and posted and you can look them up, but right now all I have to do is hunt down the NPC vendor and buy it; it is only a huge gold sink with no real economy benefit. All crafting trees need some consumable that players need that won't cost too much to make or your skills will only be in demand maybe monthly as things wear out and you will have plenty of competition. Also we really need to work on specializations for crafting. I think it is wrong that we can all craft everything in the game and be fantastic in all of it. ESO is probably the only game I know that allows you to do that at the expense of being able to do any combat. Even in that game dungeon drops outweigh crafted armor.

    So given all that, then you need to deal with the loot. Crafted, should always be better than anything you can get from loot. However, we have the issue of being able to make money for an adventurer to buy your crafted goods and still have money enough for repairs or housing or training, etc. So we have ancients and random loot bags in game; again with the RNG and the start of a shift away from crafted best gear. We add the issue that new players need gear too and we need something to wear till we can afford your crafted gear. So simply have a player in the intro zones work toward a basic armor quest given reward and up the gold they get when they finish. Here they get a decent starting set that will decay with time. After this have mobs drop both gold and salvageable armor/weapons that give a base expected with a chance of something more the higher an adventurer's salvage is and the higher the mob level. Some of this salvage can be sold for currency and other used in the crafting system. I think patterns are a great benefit too. You can have some basic gear drop that can then still be sold to vendors or improved on by crafters; again scale your basics with a potential better benefit of crafting reward and mob difficulty or quest difficulty. Artifacts are still great, but lets make an artifact equip slot or two instead of making them take over a weapon or jewel crafted area.

    So you have all that, but how do you deal with a population deflation given a fully crafting armor/weapon/food game? How do you keep people from taking advantage of a system like that? I think population is your biggest enemy here. This is where not being able to do all the crafting and specializing you need comes into play as a big negative. There isn't an easy answer here outside of creating some passive skill like that levels up with time and lowering population density to add specializations or create a crafting vendor npc companion that can do the specialization after you level them up and give them 10x what it would cost a regular crafter to do the same thing. I don't know.. I think you have to hope you made a game that people want to play. I know one of the big letdown of the crafting communities I have played in, is that crafted armor/weapons become less important over time as drops exceed them. As far as taking advantage.. how can you take advantage if your kills give you more gold than the loot and if the loot requires a crafter skill to improve?
     
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  13. Barugon

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    It's profitable because there's grow time involved. They're are plenty of things that I can craft and sell to NPCs for a profit but they all require that I grow or harvest some portion of the ingredients.
     
  14. Elrond

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    Name just 1 ..i looked but couldnt find any ..they all resulted in gold loss .
     
  15. Lord Aventine

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    This is somewhat about managing expectations as well. I understand that crafting can be a let down if the expectation is to sell quantities of stuff regularly to others. But if the expectation is that the system exists so I can make the stuff I need for my game (and selling to someone else is a bonus), then the system works great. Its not just a population thing, as more population might just scale up the same issues with more crafters.
     
  16. Barugon

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    Spider poison, corpion poison, festering death poison. There's three.
     
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  17. blacksheepboy

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    To be fair, dyes go for several hundred (for easy dyes like red dye) to many hundred (dyes that require bark, particularly pine bark) when sold to PCs. Put them on a popular public vendor and try it out. Check the SotA Price List:
    https://shroudoftheavatar.net/sotaItemPriceList
     
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