Does anyone else HATE the proposed card system??

Not to shoot my own case in the foot, but really EA made U8 and U9, and with Tabula Rasa it was under severe pressure from NCSoft and then killed in the crib before it got a chance to find it's legs.

If you want an example that's all LB... He made Ultima II.

But the real point is, combat has never been a really strong point in any of the Ultima games. It's not what he's known for, so it's not the sort of thing we can just say "pffff... it's LB, he's got this." Story? sure. World? Absolutely. History, Narrative, Conversations, attention to detail, interactivity... you bet.

And you'll note, I love all those things.

But this wasn't his idea... like a lot of people from the design team, they've said they've had to be talked into it, and he was no different. This didn't spring from his mind, it's something he was convinced of.

Does that mean we must be missing something? Possibly. But Maybe not.

And because I've heard it again elsewhere, please remember, not being for this system does not mean not being for innovation. It means not settling for the first new idea. I believe we can do better. So when you think about this system, don't ask yourself: Is this different? Or is this better than another WoW clone? But ask yourself... is this the best we can do?

 

Your right, combat in even my favorite games U7 and SI was rubbish. Really just boiled down to making sure I had the demon sword so I was over powered in U7 and the axe and ring of reagents in SI

Mod edited for content against forum rules.

 

Combat may have been simple in UO but it was the most fun I've had in an online player vs player experience. I thought the weapon speed, dex, strenght, and weapon damage combinations were great back in the early years. It wasn't a too complex system, and we were able to set up macros to unequip a shield, use a potion, and also unequip our main weapon and switch to a two handed wepon just with macro keys. All that while moving and striking/avoiding your opponent.

 

Oh yeah I forgot about that demon sword from the expansion. Did you ever try it on Lord British?

 

First think I did

oh and Chris better make sure there is a way to kill LB in SotA

 

I like the Warhammer RPG card system. Perhaps if this current randomized model doesn't work out fully, they could take a look at that. It is really a simple but effective system.

Every weapon or magic school has a set of cards. Some cards have no cool down, they can be used every turn, such as strike, block, mage bolt, heal, etc. The more complex cards have a cool down which is longer based on how much more powerful they are. You basically get the no cooldown cards to start and then spend XP to get the more powerful cards that you want to have access to in your deck. Any passive statistics your character has are based on stats and equipment, not your card set. You can mix and match magic cards with weapon cards and it works out well.

We could build our decks how we wanted and there would still be a card system. Might be worth investigating.

 

I also like the idea of having learned skills randomly show up "remembered", depending on how you stack your deck.

I don't like the idea of cards fading away with time if not used..
If option 1 takes it over option 2 and cards fade. I hope the fading time slows and is affected depending on how difficult the skill/spell is, What your stats are, and other variables.

It seems odd to me that if you remember/draw a basic skill/spell, you would forget it(card fades) in combat, having used the ability perhaps 1000 times before.

 

You didn't 'forget' it, as it will come around again (probably), you just didn't use it when you had the chance to.

 

Other than the random thing another issue I have with this card system is that it will govern magic use. There are many different schools of magic.

If somebody wants to focus only on magic just imagine how many spells they might want to put in their deck. Just imagine the odds of the spell you want comming at just the right time.

Remove the random factor, and let spell casting not be governed by this system... OR at least allow players to create their own custom spell combo cards.

 

Bottom line, the combat system has to flow well. Until I get my hands on it, I can't answer the OP question.

Again, the UI setup for this is critical. You can not use the same UI setup as WOW, LOTRO or SWTOR etc.

I still feel you need a hybrid version with some static skill slots along the base and the random slots appearing around your target for quick access and decisions.

Perhaps using the static skill slots to unlock or open up combos (which will be random and be influced by some type of planning/strategy).

So you are setting up some skills.....boom....a slot around your target is unlocked and a combo appears...etc. You could still use the deck but you would only be stacking it with random only skills.

 

Really......I don't want a 'deck', I would actually like a spellbook........A spellbook with lots of spells that I can cast whatever I want when the feeling takes me. I actually want to have 60+ macros on my keyboard (not like crappy wow or gw)....in fact I want one for every key combo I can find. Yay me the mighty macro king!

What I don't want is a random number generator dictating how I play and I certainly dont want crap floating in and out of my screen. I want a fast flowing slick combat system, I want to run arround my screen with other players trying to kill me, I want my control my character like I am it's God.........I decide not bloody cards, runes, plates or whatever the hell people want to call them.


“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
Luke 23:34

 

Absolutely spot on!

 

Exactly. If it isn't broken, why fix it? UO was great, and the most exciting pvp I've ever done since there were so many things that could be cast, chugged, thrown at you (looking at you, explo pots!!) that it made no encounter exactly the same. I get that's what they are gunning for here as well, but...it worked fine already.

 

Actually I think the "random" componant of the card system is a deterant for PvP. The reason I say that is I remember playing street fighter II back a long long long time ago... anyway it was a game of skill vs skill, but sometimes a button would get stuck or the system wasn't detecting the joystic properly and you block or jump but it doesn't do it so the other guy wins by luck.

I hated losing by luck in Street Fighter II. However I would play again realizing it was just a freak thing, but if LUCK WAS BUILT INTO THE GAME forget it I would never paid another quarter for that stupid game. That's why we cannot have a random system. Random cards is a bad game design period. Sure you can build your deck and give yourself better odds but then your just still basing it on luck.

Some days you have lucky days playing Texas Holdem. Sure that is a game of skill but luck comes into play. You should have a better chance of winning vs a player with no skill. However you realize it is a card game and luck is involved. You win some you lose some. That really remids me of WoW PvP. You just go out and beat on eachother and then a group of peolpe attack you and you die and respawn. I didn't die often in UO PvP, and never did I lose to an inexperienced player. You guys leave this system up to luck then not only will less people want to PvP but less people will want to play SotA at all. You might get some people's money on eppisode one but they won't fork over the cash for eppisode two because a luck based combat system is BROKEN BY DESIGN.

 

I can understand office politics. I'm sure some people at Portalarium understand why this system is broken by design but may feel a bit shy about raising their voices. They can just throw it out there and if it fails then they can fix it. Then it won't be them that said it.

I really think it's a better use of time to fix the system now instead of wait to watch the reviews. I don't need to see it in action to know I don't want luck to come into play. I'm 99% certian my opinion will not change after alpha testing. I don't mind the "card" system if it wasn't soully based on luck. Having a way to make it learn or be less chaotic would be the place to start.

 

Seriously, I have major reservations about the "card" system, but it's a waste of time arguing about it until we have more concrete facts. I've seen the mechanic interpreted about 6-7 different ways so far on this forum, and they could all be wrong. Again, Portalarium would be doing itself a big favor by giving us an update on combat, and PvP in particular.

 

Agreed. They should make this a priority to clarify.

 

EXACTLY!!! Thank you!!! I created a thread in Dev+ months ago asking about this system and I said this is the make it or break it system and number one issue that needs to be resolved in this game.

People kept trying to tell me to calm down and relax we have time.... I even had a poll on there asking if people wanted to hear about the combat system or hear updates about paperdolls and stuff like that. People voted for the paperdolls, maybe just because they were mad that I was mocking the proposed ideas at the time. Nobody seemed to care back then.

However it is important and if it were addressed sooner these issues could have been worked out. This is one of the really important make it or break it components of this game. If this is crap then the game itself is crap.

Can we live with a RANDOM card system? Yes probably. Will it appeal to many people NO. It won't even appeal to those who live with it.

As for the guy above who said we don't know what the system will be like... yes we do they specifically said Luck and Random are aspects of the system. RANDOM LUCK should not be part of the system whatever it may be. When I first heard Chris mention that in a Dev chat my excitement dropped significantly. I figured it would be worked out so I didn't bother with that fight. However it hasn't been worked out yet because they still want to keep RANDOM in the game at this point. I have confidence that Starr Long will drive it in the right direction, and the system we end up with will be better than just plain luck.

I don't care about cards, let the system use cards, but don't make it random. (they want to call them skills not cards, but its still "random cards" so I'll call a card a card.). I'm sure Starr Long will help guide this system in the right direction. He really strikes me as a "big picture" type exec producer.

 

We don't know how it will work because we have not seen a screenshot, video, or had the chance to play it. Every game has random luck whether you like it or not. In UO your spells had a chance to fizzle. It was less likely to happen once you skilled up, but you could still have an unlucky moment. In other games your sword might have a 8-12 damage rating, but you rarely hit for more than 10. Is it luck? Most games are governed by behind the scenes "dice rolls". That's why you are essentially playing dungeons and dragons no matter what video game you are involved with.

 

True. But for basic skills/abilities to be randomally available? Maybe you can cast that heal spell.. and maybe you can't. Maybe you can try and stealthfully vanish behind those trees.. and maybe you can't. The game decides when it will allow you to even attempt it.

Again- the idea of randomness is a good innovation. The idea of randomally telling you when you're allowed to use some basic skills is not a game changer-- it sounds more like a game breaker.