Don't Reward this Behavior... bring the community together.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chrystoph Reis, Aug 12, 2018.

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  1. Dread1313

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    I dont know man, maybe I mis-read what you said. It kind of read like you were throwing my terms back at me. I am tired and need an old persons nap, I think my pacemaker is skipping beats or something (lol!). All joking aside, I need everyone to take half of everything ive said with a grain of salt, and the other half very seriously. Which half you decide I leave up to you.
     
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  2. Mishra

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    I need you to be specific on the type of cats please
     
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  3. Gix

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    There's a misconception that auto-scaling means that everything is automatically easy. You can, in theory, make a game that scales up so that it remains impossible to beat. In a lot of cases, auto-scaling is used as a means to make the content progressively harder as you play.

    So any hatred towards this particular system is unwarranted. The issue concerning auto-scaling is not whenever or not it should exist but whenever it needs to be in a particular game... in this case SotA... which isn't even the topic of the thread.

    There's no way anyone can read your text without interpreting what you're saying as not something out of frustration and/or hatred. "Cattle-mentality"? Really? Get off your high horse.

    If you're truly sincere with that statement, then you as the one writing/sending the message need to improve on how you deliver. Consistently insisting that you're old doesn't change anything.

    Who in the world likes idiotic change?

    The ESO example is but an attempt to point out that you were wrong when you said:


    Doesn't make those games dead either. There you go again hating on millennials and claiming that they're the common denominator...

    No one's arguing that McDonalds is top cuisine... but unlike you (as per your analogy), we aren't calling people who eat there idiots either.

    Because leveling past the difficulty curve doesn't fix the problem, it just redirects the issue somewhere else. It means people who want to play the RPG for Role Playing (you're old, you should know this) need to do grinding... a mindless task that you're criticizing a younger generation for their "cattle-mentality".

    There are tons of benefits to auto-scaling... as well as making sure that some content remains difficult even based on the number of players there are in the group (like the Diablo series).

    If something needs to be fixed, should it not be up to the makers of the game to rectify the issue?

    ...

    That's a completely different topic.

    There are more than plenty... even if we were to only factor in MMOs into the count.

    Can someone make a suggestion without having someone losing his mind over it?

    No it isn't. You're carrying baggage and injecting it into the conversation and making it into an old-school vs new debate. Auto-scaling has been a thing since the dawn of video games (Zanac published in 1986 and it wasn't even the first) and you're arguing like it's the newest dumb trend.

    You already are...

    You'll excuse me if I don't take people who believe they've got me figured out too kindly.
     
  4. Dread1313

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    https://i.imgur.com/0xB8Juk.jpg

    I just screencapped that. Study it closely. Now I challenge you to go to twitch, look at the streamers. Count all the 20 somethings, then count all the 40 and 50 somethings. I am willing to bet youll find a stark disparity between millenials (an age group I refer to that you vehemently hate when I do for some weird reason...) and older people. Now go look at way lesser popular games like THIS ONE and youll see far less streamers and more of the streamers for those less popular games are older.

    Look, I just dont make this **** up. And although I have the burden of proof, I cant really be bothered to prove you wrong. Because simply - you're not worth my time. I mean, you can have your opinions all you want, and focus on me - and rip apart every single thread I make to try to make me look like the bad guy. I get it, its how you work. Thats fine. But no amount of finger pointing to make me look like the bad guy will ever make you right, except in your mind.

    So keep doing what you're doing chief. It's mildly amusing. :D
     
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  5. Three Eighty-Six

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    I guess I'm lucky that I have an awesome guild. They let me hang out with them in areas that I have no business being in as a level 68 even when I'm a liability.
     
  6. Ravicus Domdred

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    I wonder if there is anything for the single players who kickstarted the SPO (single player ONLINE).
     
  7. Daigoji Gai

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    All of this... and me saying "F U" to LFG AL restrictions when joining a non-guild party.
    I've actually joined and "saved" members of these groups when I wasn't even near AL 90 (but now I am over 90 and mastered several skills thanks to grinding in those 90+ groups... and yes, I was a Kickstarter backer here from the beginning... I just like to take my time and not power level.)
    Group leaders didn't know any better, and my performance provided no indication I was below AL 90 with the exception of occasionally grinding a new ability for experimentation.
    I have to side with @Chrystoph Reis on this.
    While I can understand the need for high level parties as Atos works to scale things up, for PVE it isn't about how hard you hit or can take a hit individually but the group strategy, team dynamics and coordination.
    IMHO AL doesn't equal skill level, and at AL 55-65 I was able to hold my own and even step up when "AL 9o+ heavy hitters" dropped the ball.
    A level 40-80 can still be useful, as my AL 60 arse proved for a long time. Playing in groups (and doing quests solo) that were FAR ABOVE my adventure level made me a better player.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  8. Ravicus Domdred

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    To me it is against everything the game started as, or was pitched as. We where never supposed to know our AL. We where supposed to actually play the game, not min max. We where supposed to "be the avatar" and make our choices based upon virtue. NON of this makes sense anymore. This is a betrayal of all things Ultima (at least game play). It does not even resemble a variant of a variant.
     
  9. CatherineRose

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    @Daigoji Gai I completely agree . This is the very first game I have played (except for a few video card games and Candy Crush). I am not young but just never played due to many other responsibilities over the years. I have loved the game so much and it was in determination I because far better on paper (AL increased fast) but skill level was far far below what the numbers were. It was not until much later when someone noticed how much trouble I was having in really playing the game and offered to look at my combat bar, looked at what I was wearing, watched me play from my PC and then was kind and gentle and offered help. This help often came with me in a group that was far superior to my ability. I am still following that persons advice and will always be grateful that the time was offered to me with no upset from the others that were were there as well. We will do what we really want to do. It just takes longer for some than for others. This difference is what I love about this game.
     
  10. Floors

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    Okay perhaps I was wrong about scaling.

    OFF Topic, but seems relevant:

    After the success of Tears, we need MORE tears like areas, with the different mobs - who doesn't want to see a Brittany Graveyard type Obsidian a-holes wave battle ?

    Wave battles where people can get a respite from the ridiculous grind - Am I the only person that can be grinding Ulfheim Solo and still be losing XP Pool ?

    I gained 2 million XP in Tears in 2 hours on Saturday and played casually after that, by the end I had like 500,000 xp left. I don't have crazy GM levels, nor can I play during the week.

    Areas that promote a social or team dynamic - we need more of that. The Cabalist stuff only lasts so long. And I mean... they never die ! They keep coming back, it's pointless.

    I hope in Ep 2, the Cabalist Sieges end, and we award the player with the most Cabalists killed some kind of award and recognition. Maybe a Chaos Medal or something.

    But like, if the game has something successful it should capitalize on it, not wreck it.
     
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  11. Barugon

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    Yes, more tears.
     
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  12. Gix

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    Old habits die hard. If anything, they're using the tools as it's intended: to find like-minded folks to group up with. It spares everyone's time.

    @Daigoji Gai Your action(s) is commendable but you shouldn't condemn others for playing the way they want either. Preach but don't hate.

    I never said that you were making stuff up... you simply don't have a point that's remotely relevant to the conversation and I'm simply calling you out for referring other people's play-styles and games as (in your own words) "cattle-mentality". You don't need to deride other people just to say that you like grinding... a concept I still find ironic, by the way.

    ... and now you resort to try and deride me...

    Let me explain something to you:
    This thread is about the mindset of demanding players to be of a certain AdvLvl in order to be deemed worthy of joining a grinding/farming group. One guy suggested level-scaling to solve the issue and you went on a rant about age group (using derogatory terms), the dumb-ing down of video games and (now) Twitch numbers...

    ... and you don't see anything wrong with that? You really believe you're holding the moral high ground, here?

    Using Twitch numbers as a statistic for an argument is something inexperienced teenagers would do.
    You keep saying that you're old but actions (ie: the manner at which you respond) speaks louder than words. I grew up with the principle that I shouldn't pick on kids so... I'll leave you be.
     
  13. Synergy Blaize

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    Thank you @FrostII for posting this (with all the quotes), as you have said the exact same things as I was going to say.


    Thank you @kaeshiva you have expressed my sentiments eloquently.

    @Chrystoph Reis, You are entirely entitled to your own viewpoint, as are all of us.
    But to "call someone out" because they take the initiative & form a group with a level restriction, is just nasty!

    Just because YOU can solo UT, does not mean all of us, who are mere minions compared to your Soloing Self, can carry players who are under-skilled for UT since Chris made the changes 2 weeks ago.
    So it in fact, it is "by design" that groups now have to ask for certain player types/skills (& advl, as an indicator to exclude power-levelling alts) to join the group they initiate, or else risk all group members to partial or total dirt naps.


    I hope you will back up your statements in your OP & I trust we will see Chrystoph Reis leading many UT groups next weekend in order to champion the non-elitist culture you subscribe to?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  14. FrostII

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    Once @Chrystoph Reis declared that he could solo it, I asked if I could accompany him on one of his solo trips (that I could video capture) - so that others could see how it is done.
    As of yet, he has not responded to my invitation...... :confused:

    Yes, I'd expect to see Christoph blazing the trail to lots of "UT all welcome" LFG's in the future... ;)

    Or, perhaps he's done with his thread now........ ?
     
  15. Stundorn

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    Only read the OP.
    They whole system is elitist.
    This is only the natural consequences.
    You know put effort / time in it and get rewarded to be stronger, more powerfull design.
    SotA lacks endgame sandbox gameplay, the endgame content is grind xp, get stronger than others, at least if you think about pvp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  16. TheBalance

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    The problems with classes/gain-skill-on-use character progression in RPG's is that it directly rewards time investment to make players feel like they're making progress. In doing so, all other players have only one option to catch up > play more, or significantly more efficient than the person you're trying to catch.

    Having character power directly tied to time like this is a reason why you don't see many systems like this in MMORPG's on the whole. They're incredibly hard to implement without the two week casual crying about how unfair it is that someone else busted their ass for hours and/or has more free time than them.

    IMO no game has a good way of solving this. Everyone wants to cry about everything and receive internet points. There's no way to close this door now that people have over two years of progress, but it's not like we're going to see any major combat overhauls ever, anyway. It's been a universal negative point about this game, the fact that the individual progression is what it is comprises just a small piece of that puzzle.
     
  17. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Really, 6 pages? I know it's summer time and stuff but 6 pages on this topic? Got nothing better to do or discuss about?
     
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  18. Fungus

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    I'm moving to Yorkshire within the next 12 months, looking for remote location in the hills to retire to but must have fibre broadband, though i will be without the whippet ;)

    Re OP's point I disagree, we all value our time and can chose accordingly what we do or do not want to par-take in, if you dislike it you don't have to join (if you meet the criteria) The only key way to change this would be to make it that entering a dungeon everyones abilities are 'leveled' up to ensure parity, seems to work in dungeons for Elder Scrolls Online as one example and even as a lowbie you get feel you helped slay the baddies
     
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  19. Ashlynn [Pax]

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    I don't get what the issue is unless I'm missing something. Someone is using the LFG feature to look for an AL 90 group for a specific zone, right?
     
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  20. moxiepilot

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    Yep. There's no issue
     
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