EMBRACE PvP Content, what do we have to lose?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jackrabbit, Apr 27, 2020.

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  1. Jackrabbit

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    Please give me your top three reasons why we should not FINALLY offer some of the promised, quality pvp content in this game, that has been 'released' for 2 years (yet still has hardly no in game maps for the story quest areas), considering our abysmal population numbers and near zero growth rate?

    How low does the population have to go to get you to agree to share the game with pvp'ers as originally promised in the game concepts?

    How many years of near zero growth are you willing to endure to ensure that the content you would never participate in, never has a meaningful place in this game?

    Please share your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  2. oplek

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    I'm not clear on what you're requesting.

    The game is currently shared with PVP. It's one of the core promises of the came - consensual PVP.
     
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  3. Helverian

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    If i can lose anything which i have paid with real money (about 3000 to 4000 dollars) because of pvp then i am out. If i lost something which i have bought ingame gold or crafted i would be fine with. Then i would see this as competition.
     
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  4. Violet Ronso

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    What the heck could you lose that is that much?!
     
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  5. Dhanas

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    Lots and houses are not droppable in ransoms, so don't worry, this isn't possible. Higher ransoms i Saw is 50k and it is realy realy rare to get
     
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  6. Lazlo

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    I don't PvP in SotA, but I still want PvP to be good. With a small team that can only roll out so much content, the more player sustained stuff like PvP and sandbox building, the better.
     
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  7. Jackrabbit

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    Yes, there is the capabilities to pvp, even with a simple duel, what there isn't, is any compelling reason (loot, reward, ranking) for doing so. Every time the developers ever talk about putting any rewards in a pvp area worthy of fighting over, the whole crowd who never participates in pvp anyway, goes bat crap crazy because, lord forbid that there be any item somewhere that they can't get to easily.

    Yet those same people want fishing treasure maps, and see absolutely no problem with 'forcing' me to fish in order to get that reward. However, I don't care that they fish for something I don't want to do, why do you think it is that they care that I pvp for something, and refuse to support something that is isn't somehow also available to them without having to pvp? It's not like I can't buy the treasure maps, and it's not like they can't buy the pvp area items. So, why is it different in their mind?

    I'll tell you why it's different in their minds, it's because to them, they are good since they don't participate in pvp, yet pvp'ers are evil (in real life) because they enjoy pvp. WTF is that logic?, other than them not being able to deal with their own demons in their life?

    My question is, how long are we going to continue that stance given the drastic need for players in this game? How satisfying is it to play a game that hardly no one plays, and is in constant danger of collapse, still in an unfinished beta state, with a snail's pace of development due to the lack of funds/players?

    If we had meaningful rewards in 2 or 3 pvp zones, you would see the population of this game double within 2-3 months, the economy get jumpstarted like no one has seen, and some life and buzz would be breathed into this game, that might just generate some momentum for even more players to check it out, despite the years of bad reviews due to the reviewers reviewing an unfinished game, despite the developers having 'released' it.

    How hard is it to agree that is needed?
     
  8. Jackrabbit

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    This is one of the biggest misconceptions about the pvp system in this game. You don't LOSE anything, other than usually a little bit of gold, and even that is very easy to mitigate and keep at a very reasonable level.

    Even so, that gold is also simply the cost of the education on learning to pvp, just like the materials cost of raising crafting skills. The quicker you learn, the cheaper it gets. No one, even the best of the best pvpers in this game participated without paying that cost. It takes time and learning to get good at pvp, just like anything else, and just like the crafting, you get to decide how much you can afford to 'train'.

    I would be willing to bet, that once you get past the 'losing stuff' misconception, and if people could get past the 'omg a player killed me instead of a mob and somehow that means they think they are better than me in every aspect of real life' bs, 60% of the people who 'never' pvp, would enjoy the hell out of it once they learned how.
     
  9. oplek

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    I don't feel that strongly about this particular point. I think if there's "too much" that's PVP-only, then the supposedly consensual-PVP game has gone too far in strong-arming me into PVP. It becomes not really voluntary anymore. It's kind of similar to the crafter-only player complaint that building a career out of solely crafting isn't really possible. I don't believe even with the amount of PVP-zone rewards, that line has been crossed yet.

    The last time I talked about this, I got moderated. Let's just say that I see a difference between baseball teams who play against each other in a match, and people with baseball bats who smash into peoples' homes and drag them out, forcing them to play baseball, who were otherwise just trying to mind their own business.

    I expect them to keep trying to make the game they said they would, until they either succeed or fail.

    I mean... that's not a high bar to set.

    For the record, I'm not against a PVP queue... or making PVP "meaningful". But to me, the meaningfulness of it isnt' so much about individuals.
     
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  10. Jackrabbit

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    Thank you for participating with thoughtful replies.


    This is a valid point, but again, like the losing of items, nothing more than a huge misconception. Put some worthy rewards in the pvp zones (which are HUGELY outnumbered by the pve zones, so you can't say there is anywhere near an imbalance), no one is dragging anyone out to those zones. Anyone who enters, does so of their own free will, they aren't minding their own business. I don't understand why that part is so hard to understand. But the usual refrain is ' but I want that item'. Ok, so go get it, or buy it, just like the fishing example.
    And after 7 years, considering the backers they started with and the money they raised, how do you think we are doing? Still comfortable with the status quo?

    No, it's not a high bar to set, yet the impact would be significant. Sorta says a lot about what bars are reachable at this point doesn't it?
     
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  11. CarlNZ

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    This game isn't set up for meaningful pvp, and putting in some meaningful rewards isn't going to draw a massive influx of players and magically revitalize the economy like no one's ever seen. No one is going to join the game for pvp when it's going to take them forever to get viable. A couple of trips into a pvp zone and getting smited by a long term veteran in God tier gear and they're out. The game needs open world scaling and battlegrounds with locked level / skill tiers for this to be viable. That requires dev time and attention that would scuttle the rest of the game that actually pays the bills.
     
  12. Jackrabbit

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    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

    I disagree, not necessarily that it will draw a 'massive' influx of players, but it will indeed draw a reasonable number of previous players who left because there was no meaningful reasons to pvp, which is what drew them to the game to start with. There were approximately 60k backers to this game, i'm not sure what is keeping them from playing, maybe you have some insight to that you could share.

    Even if it only managed to get a few hundred returning backers, that is a statistically significant percentage bump to the population etc.
     
  13. macnlos

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    I'm going to change my POT in Episode and call it "Westside". Then all the PvPers can join a guild called the "Sharks". Then all the non-Pvpers can join a guild called the "Jets". Then we will have a big PvP battle and dance off in the town square! Who's in? Maybe we can hire Darkstarr to come in and DJ the music too. Oooohhh, I got little tingles all over now.

    P.S. now don't tell that the song "...when you're a Jet..." isn't cascading through your mind right now.
     
  14. macnlos

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    If I can come back in start hacking at people... sure, I'd give that a go.
     
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  15. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Yes. I don't PvP. The whole concept doesn't interest me, much like grouping doesn't. But, if I could give it a go in a way where I felt like I might have a shot at not just being torn up time and time again, I might dip my toe in and see what's what.
     
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  16. Asclepius

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    I agree that PVP has been and is a fraught subject in Shroud, and I for one would like to see a lot more attention and love given to it.

    From my experience, PVE is ideal for new or low level players - the mobs are controlled by AI, therefore predictable. After a while you get to know the zone, you know where the spawn points are, and you can establish a nice little circuit. PVP is fundamentally different - you are against a real opponent, who is thinking and reacting in real time, and you do not know their strengths and weaknesses. I find it exhilarating and tremendous fun, even though I lose a lot.

    The problem seems to be that PVP is the province of a group of elite players, who have busted their asses to get to awesome levels, and any junior player who challenges them will be wiped out instantly. Hence discouragement reigns, and no-one wants to do it. I myself hesitated to put up the flag until I felt I was at least competitive, and had some chance of winning.

    So something needs to be done. Rather than gated and organised matches or areas, which would be a good idea but take a lot of dev time and effort, why not make PVP scaled, similar to the different areas in the game? My proposition is:

    Any junior player who wants to hoist the PVP flag can do so. They would automatically be enrolled in the PVP-beginner group, and would of course be entitled to the XP adventuring bonus. This entitles them to attack and be attacked by anyone from level 1-60. (just spitballing a suggestion). They cannot attack or be attacked by any more senior players. But they can have fun with players of approximately their level, and - more importantly - they will learn valuable PVP skills. Their nameplate would be a different colour (?yellow) to differentiate them.

    Once a player reaches level 60, they are automatically promoted to the next group - PVP-lite. Their nameplate turns (?orange), and their playing group is now anyone from level 60-100. Again, not totally terrifying, reasonable chance of winning battles, and encouraging participation and learning skills. And of course the beginner group is safe from the lite group.

    At level 100, the nameplate goes red, and you are now playing with the "big boys". By this time you have learned a lot of skills, and may God have mercy on your soul :D:p Flash - it is possible to defeat pretty senior players. I have done it very rarely, and it encourages me enough to keep me striving.

    That all said, this is a game for all kinds of players. Not everyone wants to "be the best they can be" in the combat arena. I do personally, which is why I keep banging away, but they want to build houses, garden, have parties and generally socialise. That needs to be respected, but PVP is and should be an important part of the game, and if handled properly could attract and retain many more players. Please guys, can you give it some more love and attention?

    This suggestion should require minimal time and resources from the devs, and it might even work. @Elgarion @Chris what do you think?
     
  17. craftymethod

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    The old debate between UO and Second life.

    Mark me down for having factional reasons to wage war in any town in sota without (much) disruption to the "PVP and im out" crew.

    We will always live in a painful existence until a solution is found... towns (with castles and keeps and guards with swords) just have too much of an air of "too safe nothing is going to happen" about them.

    I dont see why both groups can't coexist it just takes some design work...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  18. ultimaonline77

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    I can't wait for PVP to be Fixed/ Reworked in this game. I know all my friends are excited about it too. Been a long time coming. This will infuse the game with people that are chomping at the bit. This game is a gold mine. With a few tweeks to it, and a few changes to better the game it will be amazing.
     
  19. Boris Mondragon

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    Interesting inputs. I’ve been told many of the PvPers already left and most of them due to the “no ransom trial period”. Can’t blame them as there was and still is little incentive to PvP.

    I have submitted many proposals from castle sieges and other ideas and either they have been put in what I call file 13 or put on last priority status.

    If people don’t want to lose a lot of gold to ransom let only body parts drop and have those used as a crafting ingredient. Extra (insert number to stats) for head (Intel), leg (Dexterity), Torso (Strength). Helps crafting and motivates PVP. No need to carry garbage gear or garbage inventory.

    R/Boris
     
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  20. Restless

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    Bones were still dropping during that period. Pvp loot is back but it’s too little too late. A big change is now needed to revive pvp and a simple queue is no longer enough.

    I’ve heard cattle sieges and factions suggested so many times the words almost mean nothing. Everyone knew when Portalarium sold sota it was a bad sign. The fraction of active players left is people finally seeing what’s going on.

    As “development” progresses, the game gets easier and easier. More participation trophies and essentially zero risk - in turn zero reward. With a bonus of a lot more bugs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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