Ep. 2 - What would you like in a new quest system?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vyrin, Jul 27, 2018.

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  1. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Something I forgot, beside the notes of suggestions from 2014-2018 here

    - people we meet again should remember us and could refer to that.
    - people could give us hints on our path (not only Arabella)

    For example:
    - after providing coins to beggars, they could give information. Consider: They are outside most time and recognize, what happens around!
    In the case of the Archer in Ardoris killing children, the beggar could provide information so we don't have to search around ...
    - the barkeeper could tell us about people looking for help around. Who knows about what happens in town? Well, I suggest it is him and the barmaid? ;)
    - the town crier also could provide information for special quests (may be about virtue armor or virtue banner? Things only a town crier could get information about?)
    So it would be more interisting to talk to the inhabitants and it couldn't happen we miss an interesting quest.


    Virtue/Antivirtue:
    There should be SPECIAL quests ONLY given to followers of the anti virtues - also for followers of the virtues.
    For example: monks of a monestary ask for bringing a very special item back to them ...

    Back to another (anti) virtuous path:
    Example: after someone took the quest (Aerie) to kill the brother of trumblemouth (without asking about anything!), another person could refer to that and ask for another murder ...
    Well, if people would regret what they did and deny it should raise their virtues, if people take the job it should raise -again- their anti virtues ...


    Crafting Quests:
    There could be the possibility for MASTER crafters to craft weapon and armory with special virtue power!

    The higher the (anti) virtue level, the more powerful the crafted item ...

    What it has to do with STORY and QUESTS?
    Well, the ability to learn(!) this very special (anti)virtue crafting skill should only be possible after doing a few hard quests!
    (Something like the skills for elementals - by the way: there should be a quest for every elemental!)
    It should raise very very slow AND a player could loose the ability if he leaves the (anti) virtue path and changes ...

    AND to connect it more with story:
    The use of special skills should prevent to learn the virtuous crafting skill.
    For example:
    A virtuous crafter wants to craft a sword like the sword of midras.
    The virtue level must be very high AND (just an example!) some spells must be forbidden,
    like
    CHAOS or DEATH Skill (for a virtuous character, others like LIFE or SUN for anti virtuous character)
    May be no one should be > 40
    and/or
    high tier skills are forbidden, too.

    This would give another interesting possibility for
    character specializing referring to story elements ...
    Not a restriction made by no reason! The reason would be the (anti) virtues!

    It also would be an interesting idea - if it would go hand in hand with the story of @Lord British - to think about, if some skills should provide (anti) virtue points while using them!!!
    DEATH/LIFE for example ...

    So story and quest system would give MORE CONSEQUENCES TO OUR (SKILL/QUEST) DECISIONS and the whole life of our Avatar…
     
  2. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

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    Ill be brutally honest. I dont like story lines (one reason I loved UO, EQ, DAOC, etc... games with barely any story). I would like ep2 to focus on "busy" content. Things to keep me busy.

    I recently finished the Ep1 story for the first time ever and I used Mac's videos to just roll through them all (maybe took what 10 hours total), I barely read them.

    This is my opinion, I have no issues with them working on story at all for the people who life story since the game was designed to have a basic story line. If you are a patron of this game and love stories, show that love with $$$.

    But in the interest of everyone being heard and our opinions listened to (the vast difference that will be found in our community)... less story and more group/party content (PvE and PvP). More weps and armor to craft or buy. More skill trees and skills in existing trees. New crafting types (ores ans such). New lands and areas to explore. Work on making every thing less grindy.

    Its time to give up on this failed idea of having a single player game. Kickstarter was met as best they could in EP1.

    My continued patronage of this game in $$$ will always target those things, the things I like to do and its fair of me to do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  3. Tiina Onir

    Tiina Onir Avatar

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    I don't know about everyone else, but I've already signed up for 5 chapters of a story driven game. I've already put in money, and a lot of it. While the story was poorly executed on ch 1, I don't think it's at all even remotely reasonable to say "no story for the rest of the chapters." I paid for story. They've had story as an emphasis in all the advertising. It absolutely cannot go away.
     
  4. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Beside the fact, you are off topic, @2112Starman,

    NO - it's not time to give up on the great idea of having a story inside the (online and offline) game!

    It's time to give up, when @Lord British and @DarkStarr telling us it was a failure to promise that and they can't deliver it -as promised- for Episode 2...

    Not before ;)
     
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  5. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

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    Again, this is my opinion and I dont expect people to share it which is why I had to dedicate half of what I posted to making that point.
     
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  6. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    Great sample of opinions and ideas so far. Hopefully, as we get more detail on Ep. 2 we can go through another round of providing ideas.
     
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  7. Brewton

    Brewton Avatar

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    I for one would like Ep2 to be tested all the way through prior to releasing it. Granted there will be some bugs after release but they should be minor ones. All the quests, story line, content, and any combat related enhancements should work close to perfection. Even if this means that Ep2 needs to be held off a month, two or longer. I am sure most people would want a balanced working content to enjoy, rather than having to settle with bugs that are reported and reported again time after time. Hindsight is 20/20 vision and I think we are at the point with Ep1 well under way. So lets not repeat the mistakes of current and the past and lets have content that is working, balanced, and tested completely.
     
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  8. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    The crucial thing is that whatever it is, it needs to not only consistently work, but be consistent with the choice of words and overall communication to the player.

    For example: if I were to hand in an item to an NPC, you can’t have different cases where:
    • The NPC immediately opens the trade window and ask for the item when you talk to it.
    • Have another NPC open the trade window only if you used a special keyword associated with the quest.
    • And another NPC open the trade window only if you typed in the keyword that is the actual name of the item.
    You can’t have only one or two of theses things happen... just like you can’t have quest markers point the exact location of an item and another quest with a marker that only points the NPC that started the quest.

    Then, you have to rewrite the dialogue and change the way dialogue is presented so that it’s clear who that NPC is talking to (because they don’t always talk to you), what are they’re talking about and what they’re feeling. If the camera is set to locked and zooms in on conversations, then the camera needs to look at whoever is talking.

    Not to mention another really important thing is the need for NPCs to give clear directions. Directions that don’t assume players have already been around the world. If you can’t do that for all NPCs, then the bare minimum are the guards, bards and lords.

    I normally keep sheets of (in-game) paper on me so that I can take notes. Good ideas nonetheless
     
  9. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Yes, some knowledge of the neighborhood, or even immediate vicinity is really needed (the other market stall vendor who knows about a murderer, the patron in his bar not 8 feet away from him, etc). They should be able to turn to say "Oh, he's right over there."

    A local awareness of how to find people/things within an area that they should obviously have understanding of would go a long way towards people not typing in the chat bar "You're an ****ing idiot, why am I even talking to you?"
     
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  10. Ryodin Stormwind

    Ryodin Stormwind Avatar

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    I don't even bother with the quests outside of the main story. They aren't worth the experience. They aren't worth the reward. The story-telling aspect of them is painful. The system is irritating.

    First of all, fix the freaking bugs already...
    The bugs that have persisted and still persist with the quest journal are a big hindrance and, in my estimation, one of the biggest deterrents to new players. Players come here and their first impression of the game is a buggy quest system that is massively uninformative and extremely inconsistent. You think you've completed a quest. You got the measly reward. Yet, there it sits in your active quests log. You frantically search for a way to satisfy the completion criteria so you can check it off your list and move on, thinking that you must've left some task undone...but nothing works. You leave with a feeling of work left undone; that you haven't achieved that which you set out to accomplish. That's not a good feeling.

    Beyond that...
    Clean up the entire quest presentation. The quest window should have the quest text in a scrollable window that is totally separate from the world chat. It should be obvious that it's a quest, and should have options for accepting or declining.
    • We should be able to scroll through all of the text at once, and not have to click paging ("continue") buttons to get to the next section of the quest story. Display it all at once, and let me scroll back and forth through it like if it were any electronic document.
    • The quest window should present us with a list of the criteria needed to complete the quest - all of the objectives currently known. If some objectives are to be added at a later time ... then add them at a later time. You don't have to outline things that aren't known yet. We should be able to discover new objectives to the quest as we progress through it, and the quest journal should update to include these new objectives. But absolutely, the quest should neatly outline all currently discovered objectives.
    • Consider adding the promised reward, if any, somewhere in the quest dialog. If no reward has been offered, then make that clear, or add a ? if a unknown reward is to be given at the conclusion of the quest.
    • Finally, make it so we can recall this quest dialog from anywhere at any time. Get rid of the "notes" that are done on our behalf. They are often missing key information, or don't seem to always update as they should when a quest related action occurs.
    • Additional things that could be added:
      • Zone within which the quest is located.
      • Location of the original quest giver.
      • Difficulty of the quest.
      • Potential quest specific map that shows markers pertaining to the quest only. Would only show markers discovered through progression of the quest - revealed in dialogue.

    There's not really a need to try and do the quest presentation different than other games out there. It's the content and mechanics of the quests that should set SotA apart from other games.

    I won't hold my breath for any of this. I'm pretty jaded on the idea of quests in SotA at this point. Extremely let down would be an understatement.
     
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  11. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    YES!

    Also, one thing that the quest system does that I really really like is that we can often get the completion item first, and then stumble upon the quest later and already have it finished!
     
  12. Fionwyn Wyldemane

    Fionwyn Wyldemane Avatar

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    This! Agree 100%.
     
  13. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    It's really interesting:
    Almost 5 years I was told a lot of times, players who are here for story and quests would be a minority!
    Feedback of mine and a few others mostly was ignored or voices negated feedback.

    Since launch a lot of feedback and bug reporting was and still is - what a coincidence - about story and quests ...

    I really appreciate this and I wished, all the people came in earlier to prevent what was forcasted and unfortunately happened :(

    Well, I am looking forward to a better implementation of story content!
    So at last, we will get, what we were hoping for ...
    Also a lot of people not playing until it is done.
    (Yes, that kind of "Ultima feeling", which is not impossible).

    The story isn't a disturbing element of this sandbox mmo.
    It fills the whole sandbox with life and history. It's the flesh for the bones ...


    If you read "The sword of Midras" you will have another view while following the path of an Avatar :)

    This "spark" should be transported inside the game ... and threads like this are giving great hope this will happen ...

    I just want to thank everybody, writing concerns and constructive feedback, so it will be clear:
    we are not a minority group - and the story deserves a good presentation :)


    It is something what fans of Ultima are expecting.
    It is what the name @Lord British and Ultima was (and furthermore should be) a synonym for:
    ... quality and epic story ...
     
  14. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    I see here some high quality feedback about quests and interaction with npcs and world, good job guys!
     
  15. Dartan Obscuro

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    The current NPC conversation's model seems to be flat i.e. a keyword always triggers the same response though there is some quest state logic in there too. When talking to an NPC about a specific quest, keywords are highlighted. You can't tell if the highlighted keyword relates to the quest or is generic. Or sometimes I think I'm clicking on a generic keyword and get a quest specific response. I think the conversations would flow much smoother if the keywords were associated to topics and there was a current topic. If you chose the "World" topic and then said "Ardoris" they could tell you where Ardoris is, but if you were talking about a quest the response to "Ardoris" could be "Yes, please find X in Ardoris!". If you said "Ardoris" and it didn't relate to the current topic the response could be "It's a city in the south but what does that have with this?"
     
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  16. Humbert_Humbert

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    No bugs of any kind on release. Polished and smooth.
     
  17. thesometimeslurker

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    Equipment for combat pets
    Combat Pets get better scaling for damage, health, and damage resistance.
    Titles based on Virtue levels
    Option to "lock" virtue level
    NPC reactions based on Virtue level
    Command Undead/Animate Dead ability
    Better flushed out pet leveling system
    Very few to no bugs
    Subrace options (Vampire, Lycanthrope, Lich, Half Daemon, etc)
     
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  18. Max Bennis

    Max Bennis Avatar

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    I've been browsing all the comments written here and some other posts talking about quest system improvement to think about what I'd really want for 'next step' quest system. Here's my thought;

    I believe Quest system should be...
    • The most effective way to tell players about the world and make them care
    • The motivation for players to explore(zones and POTs)
    • The guide to let players understand the game's system and economy
    • one of the reasons why players want to come back and play some more
    with this point of view, my opinion regarding current state of SotA Ep1 is,

    'Somewhat successful in player-run economy'
    'Successful in building strong sustainable community'
    'Weak in storytelling'
    'Weak in player advancement(it's grindfest now)'

    For Ep2 quest system which would hopefully make above 2 weak points better I'd like to suggest

    'USER CREATED QUESTS'

    I wanted quest system that'll draw people to gather more often in certain place so they can interact, provide meaning to explore more on places, once visited or never visited before alike, including POTs.
    to do so, I think UCQ is a good method to implement.
    Like 'Foundry system' in Star Trek online, players can actually create quests.

    Here are a few condition of UCQ.

    1) Creator can only make quests using already available assets(NPC, locations)
    2) Creator can make NPCs behavior, quest progress, conversations.
    - Reward should be limited to XP or user created decorations to avoid UCQ spamming
    3) Contents modified in UCQ will not affect live server ; should be played through party mode in different instance
    4) Players can rate each UCQs and in each release devs can provide recommeded UCQ
    - recommended UCQ could get XP or loot bonuses.
    5) High rated UCQ could come into official quests under decision of the devs
    6) UCQ can be accessed through 'looking for group' panel
    7) Casual gamer can play the game with more intensity with well made UCQ
    8) UCQ can tell side story of the world(e.g. Portalarium official UCQ)

    by UCQ, people can gather and interact with each other, especially players whom are yet to join guild.
    It'll make grinding a bit less tedious and add more fun into it.
    UCQ can bring people to POT and less visited area.

    I'm not good at playing MMO and I don't put much time into it, but while I'm playing it I want to feel as much fun as possible.
    In the eyes of a casual gamer, UCQ seems a feasible way to play the game.
     
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  19. Dartan Obscuro

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    I'd like to see quests use / expose other game mechanics like: a quest started through the mail system; a quest where you have to grow a rare seed; a quest where you have to fish out a key; a quest where you have to learn the secret handshake emote; an area where you have to wear a disguise to get in; a quest introducing gems / jewels and enchanting; a quest where you have to brew some ale; a quest requiring stealth; a quest introducing patterns; a quest where you play an instrument in a band; a quest where you publish a book...

    I'd like less questing where you go find something and the only way to find it is to wander around without a clue.
     
  20. Sol Stormlin

    Sol Stormlin Avatar

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    Another thing I wanted to add...

    I've started listening to the audio book of the Sword of Midras. This game is based off of that history. I do see it in the game here and there, but there is a HUGE disconnect from that history and the story-line of our current quest in the game.

    These are my questions.

    We are avatars, but I thought the avatars were wiped out?
    We see the ruins of the cities and different battles fields, but there is nothing that talks about what happened there. I have yet to meet an NPC who describes the history of this world.
    Other questions that I hear from other people are, why is Krul connected to Blood Bay? Who made the puzzles in all of the different areas, and why are there even puzzles? Seems weird that there would be. It's not like some giant person said, okay well on Earth they play chess, sooo here is a chess board. Or here are some earthly riddles. Why are there riddles? It's cool that there are riddles from the dragon, but they should be related to the story of the game in some way I would think. Upper tears. What the heck happened there???? There's an entire city washed away by the tears of the mountain or something? Additionally, there is this endless spawn of undead in the mountain. Why?

    We are completing these quests and battling these creatures but there is no reason for it. It's just to do it. The quest to receive the shroud, what does it mean? Why were we seeking it? What does this mean for the Avatars in history? What happened to them?

    Finally, do we all need to read the book just to connect these quests? And if we did read the book, WILL it connect these places and quests? Why can't the quests explain that history to the avatar. I would think that if avatars were wiped out, arabella would be there to guide the new avatars into understanding what happened to their ancestors through the current quest-line of the game. I think the story is actually great, but I want to feel like I'm actually part of it. Like, Hi Sol, I'm Arabella and I'm here to guide you. Let me explain to you why you are here. You are an avatar and you are about to begin a journey to understand who you are, where you come from, and why you are so important to the future of this world. In the past the Avatars were eliminated because... etc. etc, and now you are here to do this, because you are an ancestor of the Avatar "so and so" or something like that.

    For the most part she does say something to that affect but she doesn't really go into detail about the story or the history, or WHY your destiny is there. And then I don't really learn about it any further after that. I'm suppose to resolve some issues in different cities but what do those quarrels have to do with the Avatars of the past? Also, why on earth is there anti-avatar propaganda near the shrines in Ardoris? These are things that would make me feel more part of the story if I could discover those reasons in the game and not in the irl book.
     
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