Everyone's thoughts on forcing PVE players into Open PVP areas along the main storyline.

Once properly implemented there shouldn't be any need to actually venture into PvP scenes to complete the story line. Whether or not you can take the alternate routes due to increased difficulty/pain in the butt mobs is something else entirely.

Speaking generally about PvP however.... Ultimately nobody is well served with the bastard, red-headed, buck-toothed step-child that is PvP in its current state. Entire open PvP zones being perpetually abandoned is all the evidence required pointing towards abject failure.

I think we really need to reserve judgement on the PvP scene in general until some actual checks, balances, AND PvP specific combat modifiers. Once we have an actual system in place where there is reward, risk, AND a sense of 99% of the player base not being simply a lamb for 1% to slaughter THEN and ONLY THEN can we realistically discuss PvP.

I personally would like to see PvP zones.... actually have PvP objectives... Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, etc.

 

@Ahuaeynjgkxs
The Idiom has nothing to do with slavers or the op. I stated my experience with just one of many games. The Oxford Dictionary has that Idiom listed as such since the 1920's and to my understanding it is synonymous with "down". Original Idiom was meant for "meats, grains, provisions, etc ", spoilage or to spoil.

 

That was done years ago when most game devs didn't know how to do MMOs or any sort of multi-player at all. Back then, multi-player games were arena shooters and RTSs. We have figured out ways to coexist since then.

I love the Souls series. It's a refined dungeon crawling experience and my only real complaint are the control schemes. They're not meant to be played with a keyboard and mouse. It takes some getting used to but, after that, it works.

Now, I love PvP... so when I play the game and I get a "You've been invaded" message, I'm actually excited about it. When I don't feel like it (and want to stay online), I just avoid regaining my humanity. You can't invite people in your group and you can't get invaded, but at least you still get to read and write messages on the floor or preview other people's deaths in the pools of blood.

There are ways around it and it's that level of control that makes Dark Souls great (along with awesome dungeon designs). I'm pretty sure most people who want to get a good story out of SotA and play with friends don't play Dark Souls

Upon death, you lose your humanity and, thus, lose the ability to get invaded until you willingly restore it. The rest of the game remains identical; there's no designated dungeon/sewer level that you have to play in.

SotA's method is questionable because they seem to treat PvErs like war refugees. Keep them in the tunnels and we'll smuggle them through the war zone. I think the worst part is that SotA doesn't communicate any of its alternatives either.

I mean, SotA doesn't communicate much of ANYTHING...

"Oh yeah, you complain about this thing, but we got this to compensate for it"

Dudes! If people are complaining about it, it's because it needs to be revised! No amount of "alternatives" will make the complaints go away unless the people themselves just outright leave the game. They complain for legitimate reasons. Ignoring them is folly. If something had to be compensated, then maybe the original design wasn't so great to begin with. It could work, but to assume that it will just because it exist is not healthy for the game.

 

This. Yet I have hope Gix, I really do brother. Otherwise, how am I going to justify to my wife the over 1600 hours of play I have on SotA? Nevermind my financial commitment lol.

 

I would assume group of gankers would visit the pvp enabled quest zones killing all that failed to learn about alternative routes giving the killed people a unpleasant experience.

 

Sorry if I sounded rude... wasn't my intention thanks for not taking it personally.

It's just that I've heard this trammel excuse, so, many times... my head was spinning.

Of course I switched back and forth between atlantic and siege perilous, by far the sweetest more community oriented experience was on Siege. Less griefing, more civility, more virtue, more compassion...

The main servers were always trolled and hacked to no end. had people ruining the moderated server events... many new kinds of griefing... so yeah Felucaa players were frustrated and savage... thats because it became very quickly a ghost town, and they played alone.

So yea I know I repeat myself... but I persevere in asking people to see the two sides of the coin, we have a strong community here, which we didn't have back then.

A true griefer or anti-social PK wouldn't last long here, and its a reality.

Just imagine if I said someone was hacking, made a thread, in a few minutes dozens of players would rush to help me, the griefer would have nowhere to go.

Lets just please be logical in our arguments, too often those types of excuses have been used to stop our imaginations...

 

Considering it isn't "forced", I am all for it.

 

By that logic every control point could be open PVP since PVE players could bypass them through the underworld. Still acceptable or is there some limit?

 

Even though you are off topic since this is about the main story line, the answer is yes. If there are ways to go around as LB said (and he said there will be more then one way) then I have no problem with it.

 

As long as everyone has a safe non-PVP route to get to their quest,it shouldn't matter.

 

The key word there is 'safe'.

There are a few subjects where I couldn't disagree more with @Lord British. The "don't knock it til you've tried it" approach to PvP is one of them. Just because you don't relate to how people feel about PvP doesn't mean you just blow them off. We all have our reasons and for most of us, this isn't our first rodeo. If someone has a 'militant' no-PvP stance there's probably good reason. My primary reason in SotA is how the system clashes with RP. It seriously breaks my personal sense of immersion on many levels.. for reasons we don't need to get into as that's really not the point. The point is, some people are serious about not feeling forced into PvP and the 'alternate' routes should not be made (in some cases) more difficult than the PvP route.

I'd wager most players have no idea where to enter the Underworld. Much less know how to find their way around in there. We don't exactly have an official map to reference.

So to throw in my current situation here as an example. I've just started doing the quests and of course, I'm working on the Path of Love.. (which oddly seems to be the only one of the three that actually requires combat). I'm told the river styx runs underground from Necropolis to Midras.. except.. there's no entrance to be found and from the responses I see in this thread it sounds like there isn't going to be. If I want to bypass the PvP zone. Instead, I'm going to have to make my way to the other end of the map to the one entrance I know.. and randomly explore.. perhaps for hours? until I find my through.. OR.. I could simply go straight to the ruins and be there in 2 minutes.

That doesn't seem like a very viable 'alternate route' to me. Alternate routes should not 1: Require extensive foreknowledge to use.. or 2: Require an excessive amount of time and energy to discover. If either of these is the case, then many will still feel forced to go the much more obvious PvP route despite devs or anyone else saying "you're not FORCED to go that way".. no it's just the only obvious and quick way to go.

I'm not saying alternate routes should be clear at first or even 'safe'.. but they also shouldn't be 10x+ more difficult to discover or learn. They should be roughly the equivalent of taking the side routes through a control point. Easy to discover with a little extra effort. If the devs say "on there's an alternate route now" then I shouldn't require a map with directions to find it.

 

@Bowen Bloodgood

You summed up my sentiments exactly Bowen.

I have three of the eight pages because I absolutely refuse to enter a PvP zone. Even with SotA Maps, the alternate routes are exceedingly difficult to do solo (at least for me) because the damn water elementals heal themselves completely before I have a chance to kill them. To add insult to injury I also don't know where I'm going so I'm running around blind without any direction. I don't want my hand held, but they really need to do a better job of at least pointing me in the right direction.

 

I will tuck this suggestion here where it will never be read.... Along the lines of sieges, I suggest that ALL PVP zones be accessible as PVE areas according to the alignments of the heavens. No alternate routes needed. Just analyze the celestial alignments and make your move knowing just how long you have to safely traverse. These alignments would also open shardfalls, ruins, blood bay and etc. Perhaps a couple times a week or? the alignments will be correct. Different geographical areas could be isolated so that the whole world is not turned to PVE at the same time. PVE people would then have access to resources, routes and etc. albeit limited access.

 

Well it's an interesting idea though the PvPers would be in an outrageous uproar over favoring PvErs and a whole list of other assorted grievances we're heard many times before. I imagine it would also cause all sorts of technical and design issues. IE: What happens if the 'alignment' ends while you're inside the instance? and all sorts of implications on how that's handled.

 

There is always some risk!! However logging out and back into the overworld would seem acceptable to me.

 

I have been using the SOTAmap website to help me figure out where the underground connections can be found.

I look at the place that is my destination, what could be running underneath that and use that as a start for exploration.

At least the geography is making sense so far.

 

But that requires knowledge of an out of game resource. No game should be designed or built in such a way as to expect players to know and use resources out of the game.

 

SotAMap is in-game. I used it in-game to figure out how to get from Kiln to The Spectral Mines just a couple days ago.

 

Well at the risk of sounding like a dufus I've no idea how to use it.

 

Hit that little key called "M"