Feeback from a (former) loyal customer

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Corv, Jul 24, 2018.

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  1. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    I don't think it's fair to say the narrative that EVERYONE seems to latch on to is that it was never supposed to be a multi-player game. I understand it may be hard to listen to the criticism, but I can't recall a post where a person interested in the "solo player experience" says that it was NEVER supposed to be a multi-player game. That's an unfair characterization.

    Since I don't speak for EVERYONE, let me give you my experience. I was primarily attrated by the story-driven solo player experience, but was also interested in crossing over into the multiplayer experience as an option. I had every understanding that it was supposed to be "selective multiplayer" and that what I did would persist in an online world. Otherwise, why would I have been attracted to a higher level pledge to have property?

    If you feel that people misinterpreted the KS, then learn to be very careful about what you say about Ep. 2. You basically admitted that there were many areas of over-promising. I don't think an ALSO takes away the fact that there was supposed to be a "story-driven solo player experience" where one of your "primary objectives" was to "to tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII". And no I am not ignoring the other primary objectives in that paragraph. But don't be surprised if it comes back to you that people are unhappy with that part of the project. That is basically the substance of such posts as these.

    Heck, I even suggested at one point that Shroud should leave the solo player experience behind because I knew where the development was focused. I wish you would have done that. Why? Because in the communication of it, it would have given people the information they need to make choices about their involvement with the game going forward. Tyring to deliver a part of a game that pleases very few doesn't resolve things and makes the situation worse. There were enough updates given about the solo player experience over the development that it kept people's expectations going.

    So @DarkStarr. Please respect the investment people have made in time and money in the game, especially people like Corv. One of the things I don't see often recognized is that people's criticism comes from a place where THEY WANT TO LOVE THE GAME. Otherwise, as many have pointed out, why would they waste their time posting? It would all be very adult of us if we tried to understand why people are disaffected, respect it, and maybe even spend time thinking of possible ways to reengage the disaffected. Here's a suggestion - for Ep. 2 think of a way people can see the story/quests DURING development and provide feedback that will make them better. There is a ton of enthusiasm for that, and you mentioned in the telethon that you are going to overhaul the quest system "completely". Feedback on the quest system in development (and information was asked for many times by players early on, but never given) would have helped Ep. 1 get to a better place in that part of the game. I have hope based on the telethon that it will be different in Ep. 2.

    Unfortunately as you can see in this thread, those who are fully committed to your game often just try to push the disaffected away. I hope you realize how dangerous that is and might also comment sometimes on how your supporters are often not understanding things well too. I think if you can really engage the tension that people like Corv generate @DarkStarr, you will find a well of creativity and support you haven't experienced so far. See it with new eyes... people who criticize WANT to love your game... what might work to get them there?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  2. Stundorn

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    Cant say better.
    But some shut you down here, derail threads, post subversive insulting stuff and dont get moderated, instead , the OP is warned or moderated. Even if threads get locked , the OP feels his opinion and critic is shut down , not the people who derailed threads or make subversive insults ,sometimes hidden behind sarcasm.
     
  3. Brewton

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    I’m just here for the comments
    *grabs more popcorn*
     
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  4. Hornpipe

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Sir_Hemlock

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    *looks down into the empty popcorn box

    *looks up at the posters o_O
     
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  6. Black777Lodge

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    I can understand that it can be annoying to see an investment not getting fulfilled as desired.
    But investing money in a Kickstarter or a Startup is always a venture capital investment and before investing in such a company you should be aware of that.
    Thinking that you get delivered word by word what have been said a period of more than 5 years ago, is just naive. Nowadays we live in a fast world and things
    are subjects to change, especially when we are talking about software.

    Portalarium has delivered a game with many other features than probably thought in the beginning, the road map has changed many times. Now we have
    at least a product, it differs from that what originaly was announced, but thats real life and you have to deal with this.

    Everybody has the right to complain about things, but you have also accept that those complaints may not change anything and a stepless repeat of those
    complaints is just annoying....
     
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  7. Deana Beretta

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    Whenever I see a post like this, I wonder "how much money are you in for?". It's the only reason I can see a person getting so upset with the direction of the game. I backed the original kickstarter for $40. Enough for a copy of the game if there is sufficient interest to fund the project. I was initially put off by the reward tiers on the kickstarter. While I enjoyed the older Ultimas (I started playing them at 4), and UO as well, I wasn't willing to put in any more money until I could see what I was getting into. I first logged into the game a week or so before release 52. I enjoy some parts of the game, dislike others, but I find myself still playing the game. Some of my desire to play comes from owning a home, and having to make enough money to pay the rent (ugh), some of it comes from my desire to see my character improve (make the numbers go up). I've watched all the live streams since I started, and I buy a little something each time to help support development of the game. At this point I'm in for somewhere between $100 and $200 (bought 2 remote bank access devices last month), which is way more than I typically spend on a game, but still a fraction of what I've put into WoW to date. At some point I'll either get fed up with the amount of farming I have to do to pay for my rent, or I'll be disappointed with the amount of character progression I can achieve, and I'll move on. In the mean time, I'll check out the new stuff that comes along each month, enjoy the things I like doing, and complain about the things that are broken (for the love of god, will someone fix the final quest in highvale outskirts already!).
     
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  8. StrangerDiamond

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    Thank you captain obvious :p
     
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  9. Ravicus Domdred

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    I think that much of the repeating of the complaints is because the majority of them go unanswered. The absolute silence from Portalarium on so many questions makes people feel ignored. In this case, the silence is deafening and people have been shouting over the deafening silence. Not only have they tried to get the attention and feedback from Portalarium but they have been silenced by moderation also. Being banned or moderated for no reason given has driven good people out of these forums. Also, if you look through this thread alone, you see people that think they are defending Portalarium doing great harm. They are instead of posting their thoughts on the OP, attacking anyone with feedback they deem negative. Using the words like conspiracy theorist and people at RAW are social social engineering. The crux of it all is that many people spent A LOT of money on things they feel they got betrayed on. The people wanted answers and what they got was silence. If people are upset for this long about the way things around here are, then there might be something to look at. I would start by answering the hard questions and quit moderating people out of these forums. Wounds fester if unattended, but they heal and go away if treated.
     
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  10. Black777Lodge

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    That's a good point, before some1 writes a wall of complaints he should state about what investment we talk....
    Btw. I'm happy with the game so far, investing a bit more than 1K USD in it...
     
  11. Sir Cabirus

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    I invested $1600, this is much money for a SP fan. Is this enough to say that I‘m not satisfied?
     
  12. StrangerDiamond

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    Very well written, its hard to add anything... I am the first willing to forgive and heal... but first comes the amends.

    I was literally bullied out of my voice, in the same way I was in school for reading dragonlance and tolkien... because I thought our current dragons should be drakes to keep some of the legend and the fear of dragons alive... long story short that was the reason for my last ban.

    When it comes down to this, then we are not simply upset, a self-defense mechanism kicks in, we want to make sure we are not simply insane and that the problem is only us.

    So I said some things I have probably no idea about, I said things like I say to myself after a girl that says she fell in love with me gets drunk and falls in the arms of another guy on the same night, then never talks to me again.

    Sure... its raw, its unadulterated, its childish even. But look how far we've come with our community, wasn't there people who were bullied for being too nerdy ? too effeminate even maybe ? What you want fishing in this game, this isn't a priority blahblah... that kind of bullying, not so undercover we cannot acknowledge it !

    First comes the amends...
     
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  13. Vyrin

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    This is another way of dismissing criticism that is extremely dangerous for the game. If you have read a lot of posters like Corv, you would realize there are many more reasons. Here are some examples:

    - There are many fans of the Ultima series who want to enjoy something again that is a "successor".
    - Part of the promise of the KS was being able to be "part of the development". Many enjoy the comments.
    - Not often in this area (solo and story/questing), but Port does listen and engage their community.
    - Because people see a lot of potential in Shroud and want to try to express the way they think it could be more successful.

    If nothing else, I wish the community could tolerate differing opinions without so many blatant attempts at dismissal. Such simplistic characterizations of other people's thoughtful posts are extremely toxic. If we could get past some of that toxicity, it would help give me hope for Ep. 2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  14. Thadeus Crook

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    It's great to have you here!
     
  15. 2112Starman

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    Great job. I encourage everyone to read what these people say about you.
     
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  16. 2112Starman

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    You just replied to a post where I said I resist the tyranny of people trying to force their negative opinions on me with more negative opinions. Again, I dont care, I got my own issues.
     
  17. 2112Starman

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    The fact that you are brazen enough to take a title block with "social engineers" broadly explains your purpose here. Always playing the victims!
     
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  18. Deana Beretta

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    I'm not dismissing complaints. Everyone who plays this game has complaints. Some I agree with, some I don't. What I'm questioning is the entitlement that I infer from the wall-o-text posts. I personally do not feel betrayed because the current quest system isn't to my liking, but the OP comes off that way. Certainly, I am disappointed in the questing. And I'm happy to read about its flaws, and suggested improvements. But at what point does a player move from "here are issues I have, and suggestions for improvements" to "We were not given what we were promised, and you people are sheep for following along with this travesty!"? Does it have something to do with the amount of money invested by an individual? The amount of time spent?
     
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  19. Vyrin

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    Well then why for the love of all that's good in this world don't we just engage people on their opinions and not try to opine on their secret motivations and character? If you don't agree with an opinion state why based on the opinion. Anything more is only going to lead to trouble.

    And you must be saying this because you are Darkstarr's long-lost love child. Haha. :p
     
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  20. 2112Starman

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    You state this as some kind of fact... your opinion? What are you going do be like the social engineers now and spend the next 5 years dropping tens of thousands of posts on facebook about your ex with deeply investigated conspiracy theory over it. Are you going troll your ex around to everything they do, every job and troll them (referencing what they do to every review placed on the internet)? You'd go to jail for that if you did it to your ex. Point being, bad analogy. Are you going to stalk their place of residence and go around to all their friends that still like then and instigate issues over and over (what happens here on these forums).

    No, you are probably reasonable, you are gonna move on like any rational human being and never talk to the person ever again.
     
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