Feeback from a (former) loyal customer

I said that this comparison was misleading. I also said why, as long as when someone just take your money thanks to a breach of trust, yes, it is perfectly fine to publicly put him into troubles, especialy with repeated requests and even a lawsuit (until you get your money back). I don't see the point with using this comparison any further... Except maybe if you personaly think that Portalarium did such a thing ?

 

For a lot of people this is true. But you are discounting the social engineers. There aint a lot of them, I found maybe 5 to 10 of them over on raw. These people constitute that vast majority of instigation about this game.

Its hard to assume positive intent for people like that who have not touched this game in years and yet grind thousands of hours of pure crazy hate on the game. Think about that, apply reason, what is the drive?

I have no issues at all with the people who just dont like the game, maybe leave a single bad review and leave, but the people who regurgitate the same thing over and over to the tune of thousands of posts... yup I do... because their purpose is clearly the destruction of the peoples lively hoods making this game. Go to raw.. .read what they say about the dev's and you as a player. Read what they call you if you play this game and give them a little money.

Fundamentally understand, this thread is exactly what they want.

 

For me it's the tone and tenor of the complaints. If the tone and tenor of your complaint makes it obvious that you've already made up your mind on an issues, I'm going to not engage you in any sort of productive manner... You've gone beyond reason and are just complaining, often repeatedly and aren't actually seeking a conversation. Those that do this often cherry pick their arguments (As pointed out by Darkstarr) and will dismiss or deflect any criticism of their complaint or their evidence.

If you want to have an actual discussion of any of the issues with the game, I'm game. Come out on the attack with an attitude and an agenda, and I'll dish it right back. That's entertaining at least... trying to engage someone who starts out like that isn't worth the frustration.

The method overrides the message.

 

I hear you Rufus, I really do. But the way I would say it is that it's hard to engage people who bluster. We all have a tendency when something fries us to assume that the others have "made up their mind" or "aren't actually seeking a conversation" or "have gone beyond reason" and "it isn't worth the frustration." It's a hard road to understanding where others come from and even harder to keep our assumptions about others' motives at bay. I'm sure you've faced many accusations about your motives for being such a positive supporter of the game. I will always believe that if I can't have the patience and understanding to respond to someone, I shouldn't. Others will, or I can come back to it when I'm able to deal with it more effectively.

I only say this to support Corv. He is not waging a war to destory SotA. We can engage him on his points - as Darkstarr did, but maybe with a few assumptions of his own thrown in. For example, it's always easier to say someone should have understood your plan perfectly when you are on the inside with all the information. This perhaps though is getting too much into a meta-conversation beyond the OP so I will stop for now.

 

In all respect let me tell you a story.

Once i tried to help a PoT and a Gouverneur to support a big RP Project.
As someone who still likes Deathdecay and beeing sad that it doesnt work as a softcap, but only a short inconvenience, this Gouverneur then quoted me from this Forum in another, german community Forum and made some subversive comments. I didnt take it personally and asked something and then was baffled by the answer. I then made the mistake to argue further, but i also quit the support for the RP Project what anyway seems not to become successfull in any ways.
In the end i got banned and since some people of the german community dont want to have anything to do with me, but others still do. Then something happened i just laughed at.
A popular YT Streamer started playing Shroud and some new players followed him into the game . I liked it and i supported it and when someone asked me about joining my guild - you know 3 people heavily looking for more roleplayers and Members, i recommend him to the YT'ers Guild, just because he wasnt into any RP and where the YTers guild had setup an Inn already for all the Members.
Another player i knew from the game ,highly successfull, playing hardcore, got tons of stuff only by playing the game, you know full decorated City lot with tons of pledge rewards buyed ingame with gold etc... who never had a problem with me or my opinion although he was one of the hardcore grinders etc.. also recommend the new player to that City and Guild, although he was also in charge of taking over a well known guild and we sure talked 2hrs about the game, shared our knowledge with the new player.
This player then some days later told me, i am known as the badest germanspeaking
troll and player ever and need to be highly avoided. Asking him who told you so, he stated the Name of the Ytuber, the one i never met ingame, never had spoken to, but recommended not only to this player, because i thought it's actually the most active germanspeaking guild not involved in RP.
Wow i thought and tried to ask the YTer why he thinks so?
I was ignored already.

What i want to say is. This all begun with cross quoting me from this Forum into another.

Does it help to point on others?
I did also, and i know it's allways wrong and not only not helpfull, but destroying any chance of a constructive debate .

 

I flyed over the links .
I dont disagree, i'm not on a crusade, i dont want to be put in that boat, although i frequently come up.with my points

Heck, i gave 5 bucks for the pt2 Telethon because the silver Serpent Wand is maybe the first wand what fits my Beauty, Elegance and uniqueness

 

Slowly seeping through what the main issues are.

Communication. Hardened fronts. Emotions.

That was a good posting!

 

Damn... cannot accept an half-baked apology and I already know I can chose to move on, I don't fit in, what should I do...

I don't play any other game... I spend all my free time creating, oh and did create in the hopes of having at least one contribution in this game, nice music and graphics.

...

yeah... no wonder where the attitude "accept or move on" comes from... great way to retain customers, not.

I'm just an old nerd who can't move on because that was literally my last hope for a true lord british game, the only game(s) that were more than a game to me and that, is worth my attention. I put all my savings in it... even sold a few things...

Just my opinion...I'm not a gamer anymore, I had a very good reason to support this development and now I am holding out my hand...

 

Point of clarification, please... Were you implying that I have inside information and/or influence? I don't believe that was your intent, but it could easily be read that way.

I used to try to make the effort. I don't now. I just poke the bear and pop popcorn.

 

You are authorized for drama level 4 you can open an own "I'm disapointed because thread "...on 4 different platforms including SOTA Forum....

 

No. I was talking about Darkstarr making assumptions of his own in the post. One assumption we all make is that, "it's clear to me, so there's no reason it shouldn't be clear to you". Especially when someone, like Darkstarr, has inside information.

I can understand it getting old. But we all want a successful game so the last thing we need are players getting mauled... unless it's by an Obsidian bear. haha.

 

Thank you.

 

To clarify possible misunderstandings:
That quote was written down by me . The second part you quoted you most likely copied from my signature or from my post (link) since it even has the "ALSO" in caps. So no, we are not forgetting that part of the quote. But unfortunately you misunderstand the argument here. The argument is that it was advertised as ALSO having multiplayer and not being an MMO that ALSO has some single player features. Big difference. Nobody ever claimed that Port said that this game was not supposed to be multiplayer. It baffles me that you claim that "everyone seems to latch on the narrative that his was supposed to be a single player game and never a multi-player game" . That is simply not true. I am very sorry you misinterpreted our argument.
This tactic you are using is called straw man argument (link) often used by politicians - as you know for sure. (definition: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent). Starting your post out with something like that makes the whole post seem disingenuous.

You compare SotA with Witcher, WOW,.. which is a very unrealistic comparison. Compare it to successful KS games by other small companies, like Divinity Original Sin (about 4 millions), Pillars of Eternity (4 million), Project Gorgon, Legends of Aria...

You comparing SotA to Witcher makes me wonder if you misunderstand one very important part of the complaints of SP Ultima fans. We do not care about high quality cut scenes, high quality voice acting, high quality motion capture, etc, you know, the things that cost so much money. We care about a single player experience that tells a great story and is more than some typical MMO kill quests with a little dialogue. Check out the Skara Brae Lich questline from Ultima VII. You did QA there, you might remember it, if not read a walkthrough about it.

Technically very simple, but it is a questline with real dialogue, with emotions and with visible consequences. Nothing that you can't do because of budget restrictions. It's simply about shifting priorities to that part of the game.

About your "apology":
You write that you are very, very sorry that we misinterpreted what was said initially.
So what you are saying is that it's our fault for not being bright enough to understand what Richard Garriott ACTUALLY meant and giving you money for something we didn't want. I see. I am sorry but that is a very underhanded apology and you know it. Your boss made it extremely clear what he meant and there was no misunderstanding (I added links in my initial post). Portalarium changed the concept of the game, there is no misinterpretation. You chose the path that gave you more regular income and put the other part that gave a lot of KS money (the sp offline part) on the backburner. That's it, isn't it? But don't apologize for us supposedly not understanding what Richard Garriott meant in 2013.

And for the record: I never asked for any apology (genuine or otherwise). That's not at all what this is about.

About allowing criticism:
You post that criticism should be allowed here. How come I get a PM about "misbehavior" and a "warning point", whatever that is, for asking Serafina why she closed the offline single player thread (link) without giving or having any reason? Seems very hypocritical to me. I did not insult her, I did not call anybody a troll (unlike other people here who will never get a warning point or a ban because you feel they are "on you side" ... also very hypocritical ), nothing, but it seems I misbehaved by asking that question.

edit: Oh and some fans here suggesting that people should only be allowed to voice criticism if they invested a lot money is ... interesting.

 

The "adapt or die" attitude is a little bit like i gave up debating and discussing.
If people stop discussing we all can prepare for real war.

Edit
It's only true for natural laws and Axioms
Water is wet
1+1 is 2

 

Dont you think if @Sir Cabirus takes this more serious and is really desperated somehow that a comment lime this is a slap in his face?
Think of your own statement "everything can change" imagine the game changes into my direction, more limitations and caps and all that and you are seriously disappointed then and i show up and say "i told you so "
I think it's provocation.
@Sir Cabirus is the last one i think who need to be treated this way.
Aber ihr könnt das ja auch auf deutsch unter euch ausmachen.

 

These are exactly the types of attempts to push people away that are so despiriting and toxic. Especially for those of us who've been around long enough to know what @Sir Cabirus is really like.

 

To be fair Corv, there actually have been quite a few people who have been complaining about their advertising it as a single player game, I've seen it here in the forums and in other forms of media. I think perhaps it's okay for a Dev, if they are going to respond to anything, respond to everything. He answered to a lot of the complaints that have been floating around and not just towards you. The fact that he actually posted a response at all I commend him for since, from a PR standpoint, it is always risky for a Dev to take on the troll-ish comments. Something everyone seems to forget is that when you look at the user agreement, we agree to supporting the game KNOWING that we will not be refunded. That has been around for years. It is not their fault that we gave them our money to support the game, and with everything that is new and innovative there will be setbacks, changes, rewrites, etc. It's business, it's the way things are everywhere in business. Accept and respect the fact that they haven't just picked up and left us hanging having spent the money we have. They are working hard to actually fulfill this game and make it come to fruition FOR US. Someone posted about relationships, would you rather the person who made mistakes just say screw you and leave after you have invested into them? Or would you rather see them continue to work at and change to make you happy? To me someone who is willing to keep going after making mistakes shows more character than some of the nonconstructive complaining I'm seeing in these forums.

 

That is exactly the type of nuance we're looking for here I think... we've never been adamant on A++++ or however many plusses people plus these days.

We wanted the experience to feel different from the MMO, and I include myself because I jumped on the bandwagon since the MMO part wasn't at all appealing to me (being a Siege Perilous player since its inception).

We showed good examples with other games, some of which yes were A lotsofplusses but also others who had already been quoted by devs as examples which you quoted here.

Then we were told, well wait a minute there, you've seen nothing yet, expect changes at release.

How often we expected something meaty and invested more and wanted to believe ? We weren't entitled to the truth, we deserved it, basic respect deserved.

I know many would have swallowed the pill were they told plain and simple, that is where most of the angst and zizany comes from... lack of communication.

How often PvP threads derailed into personal attacks because not a single dev wanted to come in and stop the assumptions and false truths ? "hey guys thats what we have, its useless to argue right now until we solicit more feedback here." [ADD REASON : technology, manpower]

It does not ever sound rude, it sounds like hey focus elsewhere for now and we would have.

I'm sure everyone sees the pattern... leaving your customer in a feedback void is an obvious no no, especially with irritable long time backers around.

 

@DarkStarr - Thank You!

 

If I don't like the game anymore I just quit playing it and stop participating in debates on forums -that's a promise !
At the the end it is a game and not worth the drama....