Friendly fire.

I would like to suggest that friendly fire is added into this game.
In traditional fantasy RPGs friendly fire was always a big part of the gameplay. It forced one to use aoe spells and attacks carefully and thoughtfully as to not hurt allies. I believe that not having friendly fire dumbs down many of todays games. In games like WoW, where friendly fire does not exist, people can just spam their skills and clear hordes of mobs without even opening theirs eyes to look at the terrain or positioning of their allies. It would be quite lame to cast a meteor shower that your friends are magically immune to.

Please, include friendly fire in this game.

 

I never thought of that one. Yes, please include FF in SotA Also don't cap their health to a minimum of any kind. Obviously if I cast Meteor Storm it should kill them, not merely wound them a little.

 

Great topic. Not sure where FF would be in this game. I think this is a must to allow. Zelen has this on the nose. Some of the best moments in NWN were when a crazy mage would fling fireballs and the party would be running for cover.

However, this would be PVP so the current thinking is this would probably be configurable. Since RG has made comments about PVP Quest type mechanic, it leads me to believe FF isn't being being considered.

I hope something that allows FF is implemented. Without filtering non-PVPers out from PVPers, I am not sure how you would handle it without exploits, so I would hate to be a dev on that one.

 

There are a lot of people really pumping this magical fix-all due to lack of pre-alpha information filter... I don't think its going to quite be the Tom Bombadil you are looking for.

 

Umbrae, you say this PVP, but since I will be playing FPO, it really is not an issue is it..? I am playing with my friends and I simply want the game to be a little bit more challenging and I want to have to make decisions between using single target and AoE spellls. Sometimes AoE will be appropriate, but I don't want to have to just spam apes with reckless abandon because the code protects my allies.

Insane, I don't understand if you are just joking or trolling, but I don't think any spells should be able to obliterate a player in one go. But it would be interesting to tell my friends "Guys, im going to cast meteor shower on that group, please clear out." It's something is missing from almost all games these days.

Has anyone here played the game Magica? Super cool little game, check it out

 

No what I meant was that you should be able to accidentally kill someone with friendly fire, no FF nub protection preventing the deaths via FF.

 

Accidentally killing someone with friendly fire can easily be turned into intentionally killing someone with "not so" friendly fire. Since this is not going to be an open world free for all PvP game, I don't see this as realistic.

 

You know I was just thinking about how magic in games has evolved and I think a lot of it has to do with magic not having FF. I see a lot of games where spell effects turn into a chaotic event where you have no clue what is going on because people are spamming spells like mad with no regard as its not needed. The end result is bad frame rates and confusion.

 

FF would work great if this was a turn-based, strategic combat game. You could aim your AOEs and make sure your line of fire was clear for your ranged combatants.

As a real time combat game (shown in the videos) there is no way that FF could be implemented so that it did not upset every single player in the game, excepting of course you guys who enjoy killing other players.

 

Yeah Ned you tell all of us players who enjoy killing other people! There is no reason why you should have to think twice before summoning an Earthquake in the middle of a battle because we all know you're so powerful you can only make that earthquake happen under you opponents feet and not your teammates!

While we're at it I'm going to complain to Steam that in Counter Strike my flash grenades blind my teammates and ring the president letting him know we might as well nuke the whole middle east because you know it will just miss all of our troops!

What I think you're failing to understand is that we're asking for people to THINK when they're playing. Instead of spamming my 4 most powerful spells I should have to think about target size, terrain, the location of my teammates, etc.

Did I feel like a complete douche the first time I killed my teammate in CS? Yes.

Have I done it again by accident? Yes.

Do I sometime wish my bullets wouldn't hit teammates? Yes.

Has this style of gameplay made me a better combatant? Multiple time yes and this is the key. By making the game hard and difficult to master we make all of us better in the long run. If you don't want to get better at a game but want to kill time go play solitaire!

 

I already said that I would be playing FPO, so why do you guys always turn this into a PKing concern? Why would i want to Pk my own friends?
I just want FF to implemented so that people actually have to play strategically and not spam their most powerful AoEs to grind kills without concern or a thought?


Maybe add friendly fire in FPO and no friendly fire in OPO so people don't pk each other??

Also, FF works fine in games that are not turn-based strategy. IT's just that many of today's players have been coddled to the point where they can not assume any amount of risk and like to just defeat the aoe with their hands held by the code. I really hope this game stands out from the pack in some day, and one of those would be by adding friendly fire.

Really, tell me what feature this game is going to have that will be "new" at this point.... I'm starting to wonder.

 

So touchy! First point to me!

This is a story based game, not a combat based game. You stick with Halo and Call of Duty, I'll stick with my RPG.

Thanks!

 

If you want to award yourself the first point go ahead but I think Richard likes combat more than you think. Look at his last game, Tabula Rasa which is exactly what you just said Halo + RPG elements.

Point Illesac!

 

Let's go play that!

All I'm saying is that the majority of market share goes to the PvE market. People seem to enjoy fighting with their friends against the environmental hazards without blowing each other up unintentionally.

I'm just saying....

 

If they want to make another WoW clone to satisfy the "majority of market share" I will be extremely disappointed and I will not be here for long. I put my money on the hopes that RG will break from this mentality, and if he doesn't then so be it, someone will come along and make what I and thousands of other gamers want (someday).

What you, and anyone else on here who comes citing the successes of games like WoW and EQ ,don't understand is that there is a huge market for people who want a new kind of MMO. One that is more challenging, more engrossing and actually requires you to be awake and at attention to play it.

 

Mocking aside I would probably still be playing that game if they didn't make the team restart the game 3 times and actually followed Richard's original direction. Catering an MMO game to the PvE crowd is about as evil as communism in my book. While we're all "safe and equal" no real progress or efficiencies (play style) can ever be discovered because we're all playing it safe.

I don't see either of us changing each other's mind but if they do allow open PKing I know the first person I'm looking for and I say that with much love buddy I might even open a gate back to town for you so you don't have you run your ghost all the way back

 

I'll see you out there. I'm not afraid of PvP; I actually enjoy it! I just don't like PKing and griefing, which is extremely easy to get into with open world PvP.

I do not agree that players can keep things balanced, so I'd rather get rid of it.

 

Zelen - "What you, and anyone else on here who comes citing the successes of games like WoW and EQ ,don?t understand is that there is a huge market for people who want a new kind of MMO. One that is more challenging, more engrossing and actually requires you to be awake and at attention to play it."

Agreed. Richards games to me are about innovation and going beyond what others are doing. If this is about money then count me out because developers are making money off pure junk now days and it just keeps getting more dumbed down. This probably would not be a problem if the general gaming community was getting smarter through the years.

I want a game where I can be good at it because I understand it, not because I play 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. To me that is the defining element of games today. The more you play the better you are because games are not about players skill and strategy any longer.

 

Antalicus has articulately captured my frustration with the current realm of online games and I too think Richard's team will solve this problem.

As for the issue of open world PvP let's keep that to the appropriate thread although the whole FF is closely related.

Back to FF if anyone still wants to have the argument as to why large area spells (meteor swarm, earthquake, etc.) should be able to differentiate who they hit? The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that you'd want to prevent trouble making people from sacrificing themselves by running into the area you're targeting during the delay making you a criminal/PK. I think this can be remedied with game mechanics but who really thinks it's a good idea to be able to have these spells that target an entire map but only select certain enemies/people to hurt? If we were playing star wars with laser guided strikes being radioed in I'd let this one go but earthquakes that can hit a map full of enemies leaving all friendlies unscathed is not cool.

 

All spells should have their time and place. If they don't have friendly fire on a spell like earthquake, then what results is the overuse of the ability until it gets nerfed into uselessness.