Friendly fire.

"I already said that I would be playing FPO, so why do you guys always turn this into a PKing concern? Why would i want to Pk my own friends?"

Believe it or not, OTHER people will be playing this game as well. When design decisions like this are proposed, it has to be viewed from that global frame of reference. You would not PK your own friends, I have no doubt. But we have to consider what the other thousands of players would do in a game with friendly fire turned on.

In this case, you're talking about a mechanic where you can KILL OTHER PLAYERS. That is, by definition, a PK'ing concern.

It would be interesting if there are open PvP zones to turn this friendly fire flag on, but it absolutely has to be kept out of the non-PvP zones in order for those zones to remain non-PvP.

 

You can't really take this in isolation. How does targeting work? How do AoEs work?

Do heals, buffs, and damage all operate over an area (pbaoe circle, cone, etc.)?

Do I tab (or click) target someone and have magic seeking arrows or to the just keep firing straight hitting whatever may be in between?

I'm basically OK with a system with FF and no targeting. But mechanical certainly makes combat a bit clunkier so that the fluidity of the base controls is even more essential. Because your doing a lot more positioning with WASD and camera work with you mouse, you really can't be struggling over what skill to use next.

 

Judging from the videos, the game is designed so that you tab on something and the spells will target it. IE, magic missles, like you said PrmeRib.

However, it is not inconceivable, and in fact it is very likely, that AoE spells will work by targeting a circle on the ground. Similarly, some weapon strikes will hit an area around a melee fighter.

It is these abilities that I believe should have friendly fire, as to discourage the spamming and mass grinding of mobs. If you are willing to play with others, you should be willing to adapt your play style so that it does not slaughter your friends.

I am sure strategies can be learned to make use of AoE spells and abilities in a way that it is safe and tactful and makes the game more exciting and challenging.


i realize that the MO of games today is to be as simple and dumb so that anyone can play and this feature might be too much to hope for, but what the hell.

 

Everyone is talking about PvP. The real issue here seems to be can people loot you upon your death. It is less about the fight than it is about losing your gear.

Alternatively it should not be so tough to make sure that you could only be gravely injured and not killed by friendly fire. Run the damage sequence and if it is PvP then calculate all damage and if HP<0 then restore 1%. This would allow for the strategy and consequence-based play that makes games great and limits the random PK elements in-game.

 

I'll just friendly fire you to 1% of your life while you're fighting a goblin, then roflcopter at you after you die from the goblin. Griefers would have a field day with this system.

 

If they can't loot and further they are limited in scope by the online matching system then yes they can grief just for fun. However time spent griefing will at least not be profitable.

I would prefer that they not remove "threats" altogether and if you can be killed or at least brought low certainly there will be some players who live just to do this. I would accept this risk as it makes the experience more authentic and emotionally compelling.

I want a game that frustrates me from time to time. I don't want to have to have all the problems of life as that would be drudgery, but the risk and openness adds the spice.

 

Nikelaos doesn't understand the "real issue".

Anyway. Friendly fire is a great idea but it collapses in practice when you add other people (who are NOT YOUR FRIENDS) to the mix.

I like the idea of friendly fire. But it is just another avenue that people can use to grief.

Again this is a system you have to consider within the context of the entire game.

 

There are ways FF could be made to work while minimizing griefing. For instance, it only affects party members and/or people red flagged... Then make sure there is enough incentive to have people participate in the party. In OPO, generic FF could easily result in griefing and "ruin" things in a Goon-induced nerd rage.

Fireballs with AoE, earthquakes, and meteor spells *should* affect an entire area. Otherwise, they should be single target only. I don't think it should go both ways. "With great power comes great responsibility." I think and trust RG to come up with an amazing new system that caters to a broader audience.

 

I don't think FF is going to be an issue because the people who have OPO set will also connect to people who are OPO and friends who are FPO.

Friendly fire is reasonable since people should be free to attack in OPO mode.

I don't see any reason you can't attack a friend in FPO mode either or there would be no sparing. So it sounds very likely that FF will be in game.

 

There is a precedent. You had to be careful with aoe spells in UO. Dropping a poison field or a blade spirit carelessly would get you flagged and killed.

 

NWN worked this way on many servers. Having a toggle for FF is a must for real RP. I understand some don't want it and that it fine, but I think if you enable PVP you should get FF too.

Some of the best moments in D&D and RPG games are the critical failures. Used to love people rolling 1's.

 

The cool thing about friendly fire is that it makes the caster make a choice when using certain spells that could be over powered in mass use. Do I want to use this very strong spell that has a chance of attacking me or my friends, or do I want to have less risk and use something weaker?

For example, energy vortex in UO. One of the most powerful and best farming spells. When there was no trammel, casting this spell carried risk: it could attack you, it could attack other players, but if you played smart it could demolish monsters. Now, with trammel, people just spam this one spell with no concern. It's very lame.

 

I really wish this topic could get a little more attention, it is very important to me..

 

@Zelen - Your arguments are 100% valid and I think our only critic, Ned, has left quietly into the night. FF is a must IMO but who am I to say?

 

I don't think you can ask this in isolation.

1) How does flagging work? Should you be able to target, attack, and kill a friendly? This adds a whole PK system where it simply doesn't need to be there. I think the system is designed so that a hex scenario is team vs team.

2) How does targeting work? It is all AoE? i.e. swing sword in front of me, fire arrows in a line

It works perfectly fine in FPO mode. But there are so many weird cases in OPO mode that I think it's much better off with out it. If you group a bunch of random casuals together people will grief and / or be stupid (anyone who's ever been in a random PUG will understand this).

 

I always liked being able to walk into a fire field and tag someone else as attacking you.
That could be Friendly Fire.
Either way FF is a must.

 

Not sure if any of you remember that Blue grief players would sometimes use AE damage to give Lawful players a hit toward their Red count. They would jump in the AE, take damage, then find a way to kill themselves before they fully healed their HP up again, using either npcs, poison or trapped lockboxes. At death they would have the option to report the Lawful player as being the killer.

In UO the distinction between Reds was blurry, some were "good" others "evil".

 

If you don't want to risk killing innocent players, you have the following options:
1. Don't use AoE spells when playing with unknown players (OPO)
2. Play only with your friends.

I don't understand why so many people are willing to sacrifice intelligent and engaging game-play, and thereby "dumbing" down the gaming experience. is it really so hard to weigh risk vs reward? Must we play every game by smashing our face on the keyboard without any concern for our choices and consequences they carry? Please, refer to my post about Energy vortex in UO.

 

Next time make clear you want bobble head answers.

I do agree with you that the risks can easily be avoided by playing with friends only, and being aware when you use the spells.

 

AOE attacks have to done intelligently, which is why those in the military call 'frag out' when tossing a grenade, and tossing a grenade in close proximity to your squad mates is considered poor form.