Fun

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aldo, Jan 31, 2018.

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  1. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

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    I hope we do not destroy fun in the pursuit of building a game that is rational, logical and realistic. This is a game. Something we do to escape reality. The economy is too structured, the combat balance goal is getting messy (in terms of lost fun). Need I say more?

    Give us lots of dyes and stuff to dye. Give us lots of mobs. Give us things to explore, treasures to find. We can do this within the vision for SOTA. Things are getting too complicated and bogged down. Quests do not have to be logically complete before first episode launch. Give newbies a path to riches which does not require a considerable real life sacrifice of time and attention.

    Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of fun in SOTA. But I have lots of time (retired). I hope for a game that can be used by the young, the working, and the family. We all need fun.
     
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  2. Aldo

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    Forgive me if it seems I am bumping this. I have not felt good since the above post for various reasons. My hope is that this game will be wildly successful. I worry a lot that the game is becoming a niche game. Too calculating for the average gamer (where all the money is). I mean just calculating which combinations of buffs will be effective for what adventuring scene and what gear to wear with those selections is getting daunting. Personally I like that. But looking at the big picture I doubt that there is an economically viable way to maintain the complexity. We need money to survive through the next episodes. Accessing the many player resources ala crafting, deck building and etc. is daunting. As a positive suggestion, perhaps we could organize an up to date resource area that will make it easier for the casual gamer to get into the action with a viable character. People are bending over backwards to provide gear, housing, and etc. to new players. I worry that this robs them of the satisfaction of progression or personal accomplishment. The charity is admirable but I wonder if there is a way, through these resources and game design, to make character progression linear and less time consuming.... more fun for most. We need to draw in more players. This should be occurring already. Not hopefully at launch. I mean, what will be different in a couple of months than now?
     
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  3. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Just take a look at what kind of games are successful nowadays and compare them to SotA. SotA is a niche game and I can't see the game getting out of this niche. For this the game would have to reach casual players and they are interested in easy games which are easy to learn and which offer lots of achievements in a short period of time.
    Also many gamers are looking for games with AAA graphics and a fantastic story presentation.
    Most Players looking for a single player narrative expect choices with real and lasting consequences.
    Many PvP players look for fast battles full of action.

    The pace of SotA alone is not what most casual players expect from a game. Having to read walls of text in order to advance the story is also not how casual gamers expect their stories to be told in a modern game.

    I believe SotA will stay in its niche.
     
  4. Violet Ronso

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    I do agree that some things like squirmy gear in a successful manner might need an easier path, but for most of the game, like Darkmoon just pointed out, this game has it's niche, and I would be sad to lose that. I would find it disappointing to have to select a class, I would be disappointed if things got too easy. I got into Sota because I enjoyed the complexity, I don't think we need to tend to people who want a World of Warcraft experience, I just think we need to do a better job at showing how the different systems work. I've been chatting with a couple new players, and noticed they were all doing the same mistake : " using a fully unlocked deck without knowing how you can adapt it and chose where your glyphs will appear". The reason they all have me for doing this was because they read that using locked was pricier in focus, but didn't get more info than that.

    This is one example of the many complex things that people can enjoy, but don't because we all have that knowledge and the way they aquire it is by reading the small bits and pieces we leave on here. Just getting a more complete and explained ressource for these would make their time way easier, and would lead to getting them hooked before they start thinking this game is just a cluncky mess.
     
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  5. MasterWan

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    I tend to agree with OP's points of view on this. I have a lot of experience with RPGs and MMOs but I have never been the type to get into the calculations to max and min stats etc. I like the quests the exploration, loot, crafting and player housing. I like to buy low and sell high as well so economy is something I love. I just really started getting into SOTA as I have been waiting until it is finished but a problem I am having now is figuring out how all these quests fit together and what is the over all story arc of the game. I understand I am in a sandbox kind of world where something is not quite as it seems which is cool, but trying to figure out where to go next has been a little daunting. Also, someone gave me the Torq basher since I do bludgeons. I'm a little dismayed because did I get the best weapon early in the game and as a result will I ever loot something better? Finding rare loot is important to me.

    Wall of other questions from an inexperienced player. I'm not specifically looking for answers to these questions just want to relate what is going through the mind of someone with limited time in the game.

    What is the motivation for doing quests? Why are there so many bandits and bandit camps everywhere? Is the delicate fabric of society starting to fail for various reasons? Literally three towns right next to Ardoris are under seige but I can basically walk right through to the towns. Are the cabalist sieges more than what they seem? Where do they go when they stop sieging? In Ardoris they talk about an undead uprising but I don't see many undead attacking. Going through that questline (I'm in malice now) the end seems like such a departure from the beginning. Also the beginning tasks I completed with the husband and wife emperors still shows up in my quest log. Is that just a record of what I have done or did I miss something? Major cities seem to have a cultural feel all their own but the smaller towns seem much more medieval, uninfluenced by the local culture. Do the King in Brittany and the husband and wife in Ardoris know each other? Who has the most power, or are they like separate kingdoms? Just some thoughts.
     
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  6. Humbert_Humbert

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    My problem is I work and have a family so my time is very limited. Getting anything going on Sota is time consuming. Furthermore, it's grinding. So many times I have booted up and just logged off because I don't want to spend all this time traveling to a zone just to grind for a few minutes.
     
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  7. Oeneusc

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    I think they're on the right path with places to explore. I've recently been exploring the Verdantis Mines and that's an epic adventure. Especially if you're solo and a bit of a pure mage lightweight. I found an underground kobold city through a passage in the Dysborg Ruins last night. That's a great adventure, too. These zones are very well done. The kobold town looks incredible but it's lacking a little life and interaction. They need to keep building places like this otherwise the game is going to feel like a bunch of empty towns and grinding zones.

    Treasures and loot could use an overhaul. I like loot and I like killing things for loot. Maybe they're protecting the crafting economy by withholding certain useful drops. I appreciate all the hard work people put into making high end equipment but at the same time I'm annoyed that I can't increase my power without them. I would be happy with even 50% of the maximum stats of player crafted equipment.

    Questing... I don't even know what the hell I'm supposed to be doing anymore on my open quests. Spent an hour looking for the guy to enter the lotto to get into the golden door. He's not there. Spent an hour looking for a kobold that gives humans jobs and he's not there. Some kobold guards say that he's not here others say to go find him. New players are going to find all of this incredibly frustrating. I'd like to kill all of the unfinished, false lead quest mobs for a small amount of gold.
     
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  8. Paladin Michael

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    Well, what's the definition of "Fun" ...

    I am agreeing: SotA shouldn't be made more easier to fit with any other RPG. Every RPG has his own style.
    To be different is a main sign to make it unique. That was a big point of Ultima every time!
    Today Roleplaying games are more equal. If I think back, there were two different main systems:
    "Hack'n slay" - like The Bard's Tale Trilogy
    "Role Playing with huge story elements" - Ultima

    My favorite was Ultima, because in The Bard's Tale I it was really hard to build a party. To saving with 5 1/4 was so awful - we had to restart the game *g* ...
    [The second annoying thing I ever met in my game time, was the death decay in SotA. Not because of the decay - but because of the unfair calculation in real time ... but - that's another story ;)]

    I followed the well designed storyline of Ultima. To learn about the moongates, to find the right ingredients ... to take part in an epic and interesting story ... to hold these fantastic illustrated booklets in my hands ... having this fine cloth map beside me, this was fun :)

    But to be fair: Bard's Tale had great moments! And the later published The Bard's Tale was so funny! Really. It was great. Wonderful without any hard "grinding" ;)

    Well, SotA gives fun in another way. I like the chance to watch the progress of a game, as I could never do it before.
    The Community is great, helpful and discussions are mostly pleasant. I learned a lot over the last years (and also improved my vocabulary ;))

    For the game, I hope, when I reset my story/questline, all bugs are fixed ;) And all quest tasks will appear and vanish at the right moment ...

    At the moment, fun means to be excited to receive the box and cloth map and booklet with paintings from our beloved Ultima Artist Denis Loubet!
    Fun means also to be excited, how the official launch goes and what the next Releases these year will bring!
    And - how the offline mode will be tuned to be more like U VII ...
    And, of course, when the Episode 2 will start and HOW the story will be commented. Will it go on the same as in E1, or will the team - because of so many people's care - rethink about how they want to continue it ...
    I would assume, a better Questtool for our writer's would be the first step in a right direction, to keep the story more flexible and to provide more space and quality ... and fun ...
    ... The last point, I think, would be a good investment in a game, where the story should be the midpoint ...
     
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  9. Time Lord

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    My domestic SOTA life seems lacking, not in content, but in domestic adventure, fishing, agriculture, things to do around the home or safe spot that doesn't have anything to do with rearranging "stuff". My adventure life thus has little transition from that lacking domestic life. Our adventures are great, but they do take allot of time, which they should, but there's no medium without having a domestic townie side to our game.

    Fishing and agriculture are not deep enough, while adventuring is a bit too deep, other than the minor local hunting grounds. Our domestic homes "are alive" or seem that way, but they're also not and filled with AI zombies as well as zombie fishing and zombie agriculture o_O

    ~Time Lord~The Critical :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Paladin Michael

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    *laughing*
    You know that screen loading hint sounds like "You can kill everythinig ... Port is making new stuff for you?"
    @DarkStarr! This Slogan needs improvement ;)
     
  11. Aldo

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    Welcome back!! It's been awhile since I have seen you lurking. Uh.. could you go into more detail re zombie fishing?
     
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  12. Time Lord

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    Thanks! :) one my more grand and respected friends, the ever awesome @Aldo :D who's always championed our more creative & challenging SOTA world!

    The full body gaming experience which includes the brain...
    I see our fishing, as well as with our agriculture, among much else that could be here as lacking from lagging far behind our more modern world of gaming. When such common activities can be compared to those of DOS or Flash player games (and some could say they blow us away in those areas), I think we're lagging far behind in what could be, or accepted as adequate when promoting a "new fantastic game". I don't often put a "burn notice" on our SOTA and I feel that when place-holders or something that is said to be "finished" remains in a what I would call a lack luster state of development, then "it's a zombie" which has little to offer other than the clicking of our gaming pastime.

    Our agriculture was developed to cater to mass farming, when our economy and much more importantly our gaming enjoyment itself didn't demand or fit into anything but a greed mentality of shortening the time it takes that activity instead of having enhanced it's gaming depth. Of which I should say, "that would have been much more easily programmed", though I'm not a programmer so I don't truly know that for certain.

    Our fishing is on the level of tech it took to have made UO Fishing, though I have heard tell that it will get allot better, yet in the mean time, I can't help but to think that my fishing bait, similar to the missing fertilizers of agriculture has no special effects or is currently resembling an empty fishing box devoid of lures for specific targeting of our desired individual targets.

    As I see it, both of these activities are zombie'fied, "because they take no brains".

    For a game that's suppose to be new, that's...
    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~o_O
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. Aldo

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    /Aagh! In light of the fact my brain was focused on FUN, I envisioned something along the lines of a zombie pattern applied to oneself fishing for perhaps body parts or other treasures not appreciated by the avatar. I spent years BTW competing in the other unmentionable game trying to catch the largest fish of each species for display in my house (constructed of parts gathered in a town destroyed in a big battle). Now that was boring but oh so fun. Your fish were relatively unique because the weight range was quite large and showed on the displayed fish.
     
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  14. MasterWan

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    Aldo, nice posts. I have always been a gamer too. Never lost the feeling. People need to listen to this man. Good experience here.
     
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  15. redfish

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    ;)

    I agree in principle, but I'd also say that I don't find the typical grindy MMO to be that fun -- it's why I'm here -- and I think a lot of people are in the same boat; not just among backers but among people looking to play games. I know a lot of people irl who stay away from MMOs because they have bad experiences with them.

    Suffice it to say, taking a strict line on getting away from player limits and realism sounds on paper like its going to be fun, but I also think that (in extreme form) describes how we got to the current state of where we are today with themepark MMOs. Players asking the devs for no limits, then it gets watered down and watered down until everything feels grindy and mediocre.

    So, yea I agree in principle, but I think people should maybe be asking themselves what made the Ultima games fun.

    It doesn't mean I'm happy in every respect with how the game is right now in terms of number crunching and grinding, but Ultima games were not like that either. But they also didnt need things like zombie skins and other things (that are maybe a little gimmicky for me) to produce a fun gaming experience.

    So, I don't know, I guess I'm saying I try to remember why I'm here, and I think if I can find something fun in the Ultima games that doesn't exist so well today, others can, too.
     
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  16. redfish

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    And on point:

    Those seem very logical and rational questions to get into, but I think there's fun in it somewhere ;)
     
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  17. Tahru

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    I hear you brother! As you have been here almost as long as I have, you know already what the answer is. The answer is what we make of it. I believe this game has been a great life journey complete with ups and downs, pleasures and perils both in real life and in the game. In that sense it has been the greatest of successes to have touched us all so deeply.
     
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  18. Aldo

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    @redfish Yep, you and I are looking for the same things. I am just worried if there are enough of like mind to keep this baby going? I hope there is a middle ground here somewhere. I sure don't have the answers, but there seems to be a lot of feedback around here about fun. The decorators/costumers want more flexibility, the PVP'rs want more fun and debate endlessly on how to get it, the fishermen, and etc. Cash flow is king whether we like it or not.
     
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  19. redfish

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    @Aldo I personally don't believe its all irreconcilable. I do think there is common ground and thats RP, which is why these kinds of games even exist in the first place (there wouldn't be any MMO without RPGs first -- nevermind thet wouldn't be a Shroud without Ultima) and its why I focus on it.

    In the end, the proof will be in the pudding, though.
     
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  20. Time Lord

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    :rolleyes: Idea Very Time Lord Approved! :D

    I agree my friend, "indeed I do" :p
    ~TL~

    [​IMG]
     
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