Game completely instanced?

Portalarium is working very hard to avoid creating "permanently" split shards.

 

Perhaps for further down the line, in future "episodes," when computers have more memory and faster processors, network speeds are higher, etc.?

 

I'd really like that. There were many times where I accidentally double-clicked on a hex and wound up in a boring place I didn't need to be and I had to waste time just running in a random direction until it kicked me back to the world map.

 

It's not really a limitation of Unity per se.

Something that doesn't get a lot of discussion about the SotA instancing structure is that much of the game is hosted locally on someone's machine, peer-to-peer style, with a clever architecture that lets "who's hosting" shift from user to user depending on various factors, with lighter "checking" in with the main servers. It enables them to run the game with a relatively light infrastructure on Portalarium's end.

Also remember that we've only seen an *island* to the side of a vastly bigger continent. Portalarium has committed itself to making a tremendous amount of content. I'd personally rather they focus on the Here and the There than adding more trees between Here and There.

 

Yeah, they could have streamed in the separate scenes asynchronously to create a seamless open world, but their design doesn't seem to allow for this.

True, there's still a lot of stuff done at the client, but over time I think they're going to move quite a bit of that back server side. Gameplay experiences are going to vary far too greatly with inadequate client machines or client bandwidth.

Current guestimates put the number of unique hand-crafted scenes on the mainland at around 78, of which only 2 have been built so far, and only 1 of which we've been given access to (Graff Gem mines).

 

Actually, this reminds me of something I've wondered about. I'm not very network or peer-to-peer savvy, so maybe someone here knows. Does this sort of setup open us up to someone who is very savvy to be getting ip addresses and/or opening doors to hacking? I know that game companies have many protections in place for their own servers, but what protections do we have if we are the ones hosting?

 

That's an excellent question! I presume it's something that they've thought about... but I'm a graphics programming guy, not a networking/security guy... networking folks want to chime in here?

 

Actually, the P2P was dropped and all traffic from every client goes to the server first before it gets processed and redistributed back out to other clients. But the clients still do some heavy lifting of the server side logic which has to get routed through the main servers regardless.

So your IP will never be known by another client while playing the game. Having said that....the Launcher (patcher) optionally uses P2P for re-distributing the game itself while installing patches. So turn that option off in the Launcher if you're at all concerned and you'll be completely shielded from other SotA clients.

 

Then why make a gigantic sized World map with 1000's of hex when they could have done a full world to travel across a quarter the size and created just an instance in Cities to host the persistent player Housing . Was the main feature always planned to be the add on shop and the amount of money created selling housing & player towns in all the empty hex.

 

You may be right, im not exactly sure what we are getting from the hex-division, so there might be things i dont know about the project yet.

Technically however, it would be possible to create the wrap-around world, include dynamic loading (or distance loading) as well as hex-loading, and to sort players in each instancing. I see the programming challenge, but not the problem.
But when i read what you are writing I seem to get the feeling that we are getting something more here, so I must be missing something?

I read your other suggesting and that would be a step in the right direction.

 

They wouldn't, which is why I said their current design doesn't allow for scene streaming. While Brittany and Ardoris look like they could do something like that, it still won't use scene streaming due to other technical issues with multiplayer design. Instead it will be direct scene to scene travel.

You're talking about two things: scene loading and the client's bandwidth and hardware specs. The devs will optimize scene loading for everyone and that will help with faster game performance. But it won't help at all if the client -- acting as host -- is doing 1000 other things on his box and is killing it for everyone that is relying on him as the master. Which is why I also said eventually they're going to move a lot of that logic back to their servers to minimize this sort of variability.

Because it gives them the freedom to fill any one of those hexes at any time, dynamically. That's part of their design and benefits of a dual-scale map. They don't have to take the upfront hit in $$$ and take 5-10 years to build the entire world. Instead they create only those areas that are interesting, unique, and have stories to tell as part of the 5-episode story arc. And for the sandbox gameplay, they can fill in any hex later on as dynamic content, especially when more $$$ rolls in.

 

wagram Said;
smack said: ↑

Yeah, they could have streamed in the separate scenes asynchronously to create a seamless open world, but their design doesn't seem to allow for this.


Well if they are only filling a small number of hex with scenes how can they ever be connected to run from one to the next that could mean a jump of 10 hex's from were you entered the 1st.
Even Britain looks like its about 5 separate instance's to various parts of the City

True, there's still a lot of stuff done at the client, but over time I think they're going to move quite a bit of that back server side. Gameplay experiences are going to vary far too greatly with inadequate client machines or client bandwidth.

So how does the optimising of the game speed up instance loading if the first person in the scene as bad ISP speed older Computer and if the seeding option is left on will take up a lot of the upload bandwidth plus have other media they have running at the same time.


Current guestimates put the number of unique hand-crafted scenes on the mainland at around 78, of which only 2 have been built so far, and only 1 of which we've been given access to (Graff Gem mines).​

Then why make a gigantic sized World map with 1000's of hex when they could have done a full world to travel across a quarter the size and created just an instance in Cities to host the persistent player Housing . Was the main feature always planned to be the add on shop and the amount of money created selling housing & player towns in all the empty hex.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
~TL~
Wow wagram,
I would have figured that with as many posts as you have made that you would have read about all the answers to all the questions you pose by having watched all the Videos that have been made about SotA.

Do you think we need to "sticky thread" a list of all the videos?
How difficult is it to find answers to understand our game?

After 778 posts, I would have expected you to have known about SotA wagram... "That concerns me" because if you couldn't or can't find the answers to such questions... then others much more "new to SotA" as you are, may be having a difficult time finding the information they need as well.
~Time Lord~

 

YOu can enter any hex on that over land map, and bring up an area roughly 1sq km.

 

But not being privy to the Dev+ forums & game direction chats I have to try to find it all on here if I can't find it I submit a post and wait for replies.

Well if there are video's that answer all questions then they should be put into a sticky thread. I usually only read replies in threads but I don't watch all the threads I may post a response in.

The post I had read at an earlier time said there was about 4800 hex and a majority of those would be filled, I didn't know then it was going to be mainly Towns hex's owned by players.
I have also read recently its about 16000 hex but never seen a DEV post stating the full facts about the overland map.

In each release many have Lag & trouble logging in if this is caused by the seeding from slow machines maybe that should be a priority to fix now not later. Any videos that explain the logic on using players bandwidth. LOTRO used to use PANDO to seed from players which I turned off I pay an ISP for my Bandwidth and don't like it being manipulated by Corporations.
Recently Turbine have shut it down altogether.

Any video's about why such a large overland map is required when 500 would still have been over the top, and the overland map is a CPU burner and its not many players favourite feature. Seems a lot of time and money have had to be put into it with this the 3rd change since kickstarter.

 

Random encounters....

I can understand how some people might think random encounters are boring, but there's realism to this. If there are long empty roads, (especially if it is a big trade route), there is a chance that people will hide out and rob easy targets. Forests might have less visiblity and harbor wild creatures. Mountains might have it's predators and territorial beings as well.

However, why do we need to see them on the map every time? I can understand seeing some things on a clear cut roadway, but if you're traveling through a forest how far can you actually see? You might walk into an area infested with spiders, or fall into the hands of wild elves.

Also following the road, you might meet some traveling gypsys and have the option to interact with them or pass them by. However sometimes the people on the road are bandits dressed to look like gypsys, and they jump out of the wagon and you find yourself in danger. (You should be inside the center of the hex so that you would really have to run your tail off to escape. Also some bandits might have been hiding out behind you, because that's just how bandits work. They don't want you to escape so they can rob you.

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Now if you aren't an easy target, maybe they should make it so that you don't get attacked as much. So if you party up, and go out to adventure, maybe they could lessen the chance that you will get ambushed on the road. Bandits might just let you pass so they can attack an easier target. (Also if you're partied up you might be looking to go do something in particular, and I think getting randomly attacked might get in the way. So my excuse that you are not an easy target could be used to explain why you get less random encounters in a party). However I do think that parties should be challenged in specific dangerous areas like dungeons, and undead lairs just like normal.

This is realistic, because a lone merchant walking on a road is ASKING to be robbed. Merchants should travel in groups and maybe have a well armed group.

 

How many Hex are used to bring up just one scene if their will only be about 100 full scenes ( see earlier post ) so you can enter every hex but not all are unique parts of a world but the same scene.

So if each scene is about 1 km square how big's an hex 100m so roughly 100 hex connect to one scene if the overland maps to scale. or 50m hex then 200 hex to one scene. any video's on this subject.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19

@wagram

 

There are plenty of dev chats regarding this subject. Most of which were early chats from Kickstarter.

The short of it is that the overland map is modular. You can enter every hex and they are roughly 1 square km or so. One of the benifits of this is they can insert a new town or a different hex type relatively quick (instead of waiting for a game release with an updated world map). Also each hex is going to be populated with people who are relevant to one another using selective multiplayer.

Keep in mind this means not only is the game modular, it is rather large while still being inexpensive to create for its size. If they created a full 3d world their budget would be sapped on that alone. Also each expansion will more than double the size of the world. So by eppisode 5 the world will be really really massive. So the dual scale map system allows for them to create a massive world for a fraction of the cost.

 

Every instance is a separate shard created by the first player in if the next 1000 entering after you are not on your friends list you have a 1000 shards running of one scene. How much loot ,ore, wood, reagents will that one instance be throwing into the game. Appears like there will be no balanced game economy or is it all just a sharded world with just your friends living in yours.

From Massively it's linked on the SotA home page.

One key aspect of Shroud of the Avatar is that it will be one single metaverse, not split into multiple servers. The game -- in Garriott's words, "a fully story-driven solo player game wrapped in new form of massively multiplayer" -- will utilize shards to propagate new zones when one fills up, but it also adds a welcome twist. The new instances of zones will be sorted according to friend networks, so "it should be relatively invisible" to players. Players won't have to hoop-jump to get to their friends.

​

 

That's a good question for the devs about how selective multiplayer will work.

They did mention that it would sort of dynamically shard as we were playing. So the shards aren't refering to their game servers. Usually a shard was a complete separate server with it's own version of the entire world.

Selective Multi-Player will draw in people who is relevant to you. The sharding takes place on the fly. If there are too many people in one instance a new instance appears.

**************

Now how that is done I do not know. We could ask. It seems reasonable they will ultimately discover what the optimal maximum an instance can hold on average, and they might open a new instance before MAXIMIZING the first instance. That way if some other "relevant" people pop into that hex or city, they could still be matched with their friends in the first instance.

I just do not know. Like you or anybody else I can only go off of what I've heard from them, and the rest is speculation. However it seems like these instances work!!! In fact they work better than I expected. They used the term Dozens to express how many people can be in that same hex at one time back during kickstarter. That was kind of a scary term because it could very well mean multiples of 12, or it could mean only 24 for instance.

HOwever now we know that it comfortably holds quite a few peolpe now that we've seen it work in 7 Pre-Alphas. The cities feel very populated to me, it feels like a normal MMO. If there is 1000 people in one hex I don't think we will even miss not seeing the other 900 (or whatever) people in other instances of the town.