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Have You Filled Your Recipe Book Already With Un-Teachable Recipes and Need to Buy Teachable? BEWARE

Discussion in 'Release 36 Bug Forum' started by Duke Ezekiel Cooper, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    Not so fast player...

    Buying new recipes to replace your un-teachable recipes doesn't work.

    You cant fill your recipe book with recipes that you've already learned.
     
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  2. Raven Swiftbow

    Raven Swiftbow Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    @Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    If I understand you correctly, the issue is:
    - a player learned a recipe in R35, but now that recipe is a re-teachable recipe in R36;
    - however, since they learned it in R35, they cannot teach it;
    - so they re-purchase the recipe, hoping to relearn it so they can teach it to others;
    - BUT, they cannot do so because the item tells them that they have already learned that recipe;
    - and this is at odds with what had been stated elsewhere (in the instructions I believe).

    I have submitted this as an Items and Inventory bug with, basically, the information stated above. If that is incorrect, please let me know. Thank you for reporting!!
     
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  3. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    All information is correct. Thanks!
     
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  4. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    UPDATE: @DarkStarr @Chris

    All of the recipes that I bought in R34 and R35, that are now Re-Teachable in R36, converted to Re-Teachable and can be traded to other players and it will update the recipes that they learned through discovery in their recipe book to Re-Teachable.

    However,
    All of the recipes that I bought in R34 and R35, That are now Teachable in R36, did not convert to Teachable and I cant buy the recipes again and upgrade to teachable in my recipe book because the recipes are already learned.

    Suggested Solution:
    Make all of the recipes bought at the vendor learnable, even if the player already knows the recipe by discovery, and IF the recipe is already discovered then the bought recipe upgrades to Teachable or Re-Teachable IF the bought recipe is designated as Teachable or Re-Teachable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  5. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    We were told (think it was Chris playing "Evil Chris") that what we had at the end of r35 would be grandfathered in? Maybe I understand things wrong.; where is it written that grandfathered means hobbled? The method of using discovery was a legit practice...it wasn't gaming the system, it wasn't utilizing some exploit to get a gajillion XP. THe mats and fuels used to make the goods I think compensated for not having aid 250g at the NPC shop. Now, a player walks up (speaking r36 and forward) buys a recipe and by virtue of that action they are allowed to teach and in some cases pass on a re-teachable recipe. This is a service.. it is something that can be provided in many ways. But for reasons I can't wrap my head around those of us who obtained those recipes previously are now forever barred from the ability to provide that service.

    Suggested Solution: What's in the book is in the book.. no matter who's book it is or when it went in there. There will be no player driven economy if there be no crafters. I'm thinking removing from that segment of the population the feeling that they are forever being bent over would go a long ways in creating some good karma for the future. Ya don't mess with a working man's tools.. no matter what their gender.
    @Chris
     
  6. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    I bought about 95% of the recipes that are in my book, because I was too damn lazy to boot up a website and use the discovery method. Basically, the only time I used the websites for discovery is when I couldn't find the recipe to buy in game, like wooden bed frame.

    Now... I cant even "re-buy" the recipes that I've already bought once and learned that are now teachable because you cant absorb teachable recipes into your book that you've already learned. Not even to upgrade them... These are all recipes that I've already paid gold for once @DarkStarr @Chris . I cant even purchase them again and learn them, which I'm willing to do, in other words, spend the gold twice, to get the recipes upgraded to teachable... There is a problem here... I'm out somewhere about 200k-250k, ie. $57.00 - $71.00 for recipes that I'm going to have to absorb as well as spend again to get these teachable recipes right in my book IF you guys get it fixed so I can upgrade them to teachable recipes...

    *Note* - Re-Teachable recipes are fine. Those bought recipes converted to re-teachable automatically and can be traded to and absorbed by others and will even upgrade the discovered recipe in the recipients book as re-teachable. The problem is with the teachable recipes.

    Now don't get me wrong @DarkStarr & @Chris, I'm willing to absorb the lose and even spend the money again to get the situation corrected, but you've got to give me a gateway to do that!

    Whoever is building recipes down there and coding how they are implemented can call me if they need to.

    It's a permissions thing, and they missed it on this pass...

    Need to know tags - @DarkStarr @Chris @Berek @Lord British @Troll Hunter @BurningToad @dallas

    Can one of you please make sure that @DarkStarr sees this? "Houston, we got a problem!"
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  7. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Looking at this. Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.
     
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  8. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    No need to thank me man, you know I don't raise the "Oh ****" flag unless its a serious flaw.

    I can go back to being me again now... I know your on it.

    Outtie :)

    Kal Ort Por... *POOF*
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  9. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    The issue is bigger though which I think you'd agree on. How many ppl can absorb the hit? More importantly though is they shouldn't HAVE To. I wound up making tons of stuff to use discovery...as anybody who has crafted knows.. that isn't necessarily cheap. Take a House for example.. 200 timber? That means you gotta have 300 wood*IF* you also have the scrap. Now what if you got a recipe through discovery and STILL had to go buy the recipe again? Example: I crafted a chain chest... realized that (although I know damned well I had socketed chests previously) I did not have the recipe.. so I "discovered" it again. Next day... guess what? Yep.. I had to buy the damned thing again. Now I know they have the ability to track items and can therefore prove we aren't making this stuff up. Glad to see @DarkStarr is on it...
    I will repeat though that (unless someone can show me why I am wrong and there is a better way) the solution is to balance books across the board.

    To Quote myself (ya that feels odd)
    End of story.. Peace out
     
  10. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    I understand what your saying but the goal here is to shut the websites down that broadcasted the recipes for discovery. The gold sink that the recipes are intended for was demolished with the mom and pop websites that were putting the crafting recipes out there... Discovery is fine... But as the game was intended, you'll have to buy the recipes to learn the recipes that are teachable, and you'll have to either buy or be traded the re-teachable recipes.

    Discovery of high level recipes was never the end design goal and even some recipes wont be teachable or re-teachable because they are crafter indigenous, IE. Un-Teachable recipes are dependent upon crafter skill specialty. That's probably not the right words, but in short, I'm trying to say that some recipes wont be teachable or re-teachable because of the skill level that they require to produce.

    I know that many people aren't going to want to buy the teachable recipes to upgrade it in their books if they have already learned by discovery, and they don't have to, but the option should be there for guys like me, that do want teachable recipes, to purchase the recipes from a vendor and upgrade the existing discovered recipe to teachable or re-teachable depending on the type of recipe that it is.

    As I said above, I already bought 95% of the recipes in my book in R34 & R35, and I have a full book, but those teachable recipes never converted and wont, because the game thinks they are discovered recipes even though they aren't... The only way to get them upgraded to teachable is to buy the recipe again, BUT, I cant even do that right now, cause I cant learn a recipe that's already in my book!

    It's a big ol' mess...
     
  11. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    Amen to that..

    I think the intent going forward is fine, I too spent a good amount of $ buying the recipes (after I knew discovery was out and I wasn;'t sure what would be left post r36) The news came upon us all suddenly however and penalizes those who used a previosly kosher method. In addition.. I think they may have created another mess given that w/o the efforts (unpaid mind) of those who members who have been making sites, How-to videos etc. there is a large segment of the population that would be totally screwed.
    Imagine trying to get around w/o sotamap for example. Folks *might* be less prone to put in the effort to make those things available if they have the feeling Port will just all of a sudden zap them and their usefulness if that makes sense.
    Here again...members of the community are doing what one would normally think the game Dev's would be doing in terms of instructional information HOWEVER.. we b crowd sourced.. we are the financial backbone and I would put $ on a bet that most of us would rather see dev time (our $) go into game development and not maps.. HUD''s etc.
    Idk...we want people to craft.. we want a player driven economy but we hamstring crafters. There is so much fear that a crafter might be able to actually make a buck...

    Somebody (Think this was @Chris again) said if for example someone could actually make items and earn a living selling to the NPC Vendors that sure as shootin somebody would game that. Now I'm not going to say somebody wouldn't try...but to make it prohibitive for a new player (those who aren't members of guilds who have the resources and will just have sharing time) to get into the game so to speak.. well that's just wrong. .



    to quote again. It's a big ol'mess

    Edited.. so it (I think) makes more sense :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  12. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    Well we certainly want newbie crafters to come in, live a life of peace and be able to make some sort of living until their skill is sufficient that other players take notice if their products, and there are ways in the game to do that through crafting, but you have to actually work to find those avenues and it's not by just putting things on a vendor and waiting for someone to come along and buy it.

    A player should know coming in... That if their skill is low, then their gonna have pay their dues to get what they want. Players are more than willing to spread the wealth through buy orders, but nobody wants fill those buy orders for the gold that's being offered. Everybody wants it all now, and hardly anybody wants to play the long game.

    This one isn't being built to play for 2-3 years, get bored, and then go to the next best thing. This one is being built for the haul... The long haul...
     
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  13. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    That like the other day...

    I saw a guy the other day that was already a 32X GM... In 4 months time...
    Now... I don't claim to be the smartest dude in the world, but something ain't right with that picture...

    The player is either a crackhead, a botter, BOTH, or the game is flawed...

    32X GM in 4 months... That dude won't be in the game over 2 yrs. He'll get bored and move on.

    It's not my business to second guess the mechanics these developers are putting into Shroud. They are doing the very best they can to build something for the world that has never been seen before, and their doing it with a community full of assholes nipping at them at every turn...

    Honestly, they took a hell of a risk allowing the public to be all up in their business during development, and it's probably a headache none of them want to re-live when it's done...
     
  14. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    I'm gonna get off this thread now. It's a bug post, not a commentary...

    Best of luck to you.
     
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  15. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    @DarkStarr & @Chris @Berek

    Well... They got the Teachable recipes fixed insofar as you can now buy a teachable recipe from the vendor and absorb it even if you have a discovered recipe or pre R36 recipe in your book and it will upgrade to teachable

    But, now... You cant buy a re-teachable recipe and absorb it if the recipe is already in your book... Same problem, but now it affects re-teachable instead of teachable...

    I haven't tested trading teachable and re-teachable recipes to others yet, but before, we could trade re-teachable recipes to others and it would absorb and even upgrade the recipients discovered recipe to re-teachable, and you could buy re-teachable from vendor and it would absorb even if you had re-teachable in your book... Now the teachable can be bought and absorbed and will upgrade the discovered or pre36 to teachable, *Might want to check to make sure teachable cant be traded and retain the teachable property to recipient*, but you cant buy re-teachable recipes anymore and absorb them if you already have the re-teachable recipe in your book.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  16. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    OH MY GAWD, Are you saying we now have to Re-purchase all the recipes we learned by discovery?

    @DarkStarr @Chris

    Seriously? I mean in a game where the blind eyes were turned to the 'sploits that gave insane advantages (In spite of being made aware of them) you're now really gonna make this a perma handcuff extra goldsink for people that used a touted (discoverable recipes) mechanic?

    idk.. I think it sucks...*shrug* screw it I guess... why should I extra spend money just for the privilege of being able provide a service in teaching others?
     
  17. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    No, that's not what I'm saying... I'm saying that you cant purchase and absorb re-teachable recipes that are already in your book.

    If your book is filled with discovered recipes, your fine... Unless you want to be able to teach or re-teach those recipes. In that case, yes you will have to buy the teachable recipes and upgrade the recipe in your book and you'll have to be traded or buy the re-teachable recipes and upgrade the discovered recipe in your book.

    At current, you cant buy and absorb re-teachable recipes. They got the teachable recipes fixed so you can buy and upgrade, but now the re-teachable are bugged, where they weren't before.

    It's looks like the teachable recipes took on the attributes the re-teachable recipes had the other day and the re-teachable took on those of the teachable... It's like the bug switched from Teachable recipes to Re-Teachable... ????
     
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  18. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    smh... Man I just don't know...they should have just grandfathered like they said...

    at this point... idc anymore...I wanted to be able to teach or re-teach...but.. I guess they (the untrained) can go eat cake (aka go spend their own time and $ to learn)