Help me kill the Troll

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stundorn, Jul 7, 2017.

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  1. Diab Blackbow

    Diab Blackbow Avatar

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    The game should be balanced around your RP desires. If a naked, pipe wielding, no reagent using drunken mage can't kill it, no should be able too. It shouldn't matter how many hours I spend being better.
     
  2. Ravicus Domdred

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    I think what he posted was sarcasm lol.
     
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  3. Diab Blackbow

    Diab Blackbow Avatar

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    And I completely got it.
     
  4. MrBlight

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    I literally skipped this whole thread..
    Auto attack with bow..
    Light circles.
    Jump
    Jump
    jump up and get down!
    Jump.
    Jump

    Yea.. adv level like 75 i solo'd the toll in ravensmoore.. its not hard. Small circles.. auto attack with bow (or fire DOTS.) and timing ure jumps. Can do it without getting hit.
     
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  5. DeadnGone

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    This game was not meant to role play *your* own way through it and be able to do everything like everyone else. If you wish to do actual role-play, that is on you... for some, simply "role-playing" their character as a fighter is simply enough. Just because a group of people enjoy that within the game and have enjoyed it since old UO days does not mean that is how most people play or how most UO players played. It was always a small niche of people. Please do not impose your views of Role-playing and how you may feel superior to others because it gives you all a "superior and more satisfying" gaming experience. That is just a load of crap.

    I agree there should be many things out there that any build can tackle that would be good for their build... I do not, however, think that all builds should be equal. I do not think all mobs should be equal. I do not think all bosses should be equal. I do not think all bosses should be the same game level either.
     
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  6. Stundorn

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    quotes like this are
    exactly that it should because its an RPG - or not?!

    withput any restrictions, limits, dependencies on players "roles" there is only one viable role and all the other roles are crap, self-restricted, artificially constructed roles that arent cpmpetetive.

    the thing about the troll or a boss is one thing - the thing abput PVP is the other - so roleplayers dont have to PVP, if they dont accet to play the Avatars Role what is more or less the Jack of all trades.

    All Chars are Magic Hybrids. All Magic Schools are more or less neccessary, not to PvE maybe, that can be organized in groups, but for PVP.
    And PVP Scenes are Scenes about the Lore and the Mainquests!

    You all dont get me - and i'm out - dont have the will to argue with people here. Beside Ravicus no one get it.

    Play the Game you like, have fun - Stun o7
     
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  7. DeadnGone

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    I don't understand this. What in the Nine Hells are you talking about... only "one" viable role??? There are many you can take if you are referring to character builds and skill setups. What are "all other roles are crap"? Which roles? Don't jump around from builds to how people "role play" a deranged lumberjack in a dress either. You're either talking about character builds/skills or you're talking about actually role-playing the "character, ie mentality, quirks, etc" of your avatar. Which is it?


    No clue how this would even get to be about PvP talking about the Troll or a Boss unless you're killing them in The Fall or Blood Bay. How exactly is "the Avatars Role" being a "jack of all trades"? Simply because we can train in many areas? Because there is not much else to do other than grind and work on skills in the game?

    I think there should be quite a bit more skills and schools in the game. I think there should be subsets with limited choices in subsets for every player to make them more unique and add diversity... but that is neither here nor there for the moment. There are still many ways to kill trolls.


    Well it is a high magic fantasy setting. There is going to be a lot of magic in the game and with characters in some regard, even if its only in enchanted gear and magical items & potions.
    Are you complaining because you DON'T want to use magic now? You don't have to in order to kill the troll. You can go full Man-at-Arms build if you want or duelist/rogue type and still kill a troll.
    Again, why are we talking about PvP? If you don't PvP... why is this an issue?


    You sound frustrated and I get frustrated too. Hell, every time I read stuff like this I am like, "What the frack are they even talking about!?" It's like half the posts are people double-talking or trying to double-talk the meaning of their posts. Just come out and be clear and concise. If you really need help with the troll, plenty have given tips on how to do it, even with different styles. You can use the creature's mechanics or use different builds to defeat them. If you don't want to change your build, then you need to work on getting the timing right on the troll's jumps and trying to stay to its back within melee range, even with a bow, and avoiding it's attacks.

    If this is really about PvP, then really nothing anyone can say that can help you. I have no doubt the game will change again before release and even then, everything we worked on will be for naught when things get changed again. I fully expect that. Always happens. So hopefully the eventual changes will be for the better and more to everyone's liking... but until then, just have to keep rolling with the punches.

    Good luck and have fun Stundorn
     
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  8. belijaal

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    You are entitled to your opinions and entitled to put them across whenever you want. I just find the way you do it pathetic and dishonest. You still got people trying to help in this thread while all you care about is unloading your crap like a broken record.

    In the thread below it looked like you really wanted to help a new player until you had to start all over again.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/level-tracking-grinding.94284/
     
  9. Stundorn

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    My sort of RP has nothing to do with danceparties and is highly dependet on gamemechanics for PvE and PvP.

    I RP with the Environment, i create a character - and just to make sure, the thread is no longer aabout Bossfights or Balance about that - i can easily accept to not kill trolls or Water or Airelementals (what are no Problem to kill with Water and Air Magic).
    The thread is now more about in total balance of the game due to MP purposes - PvP and Economy maybe - PvP Scenes, which are highly lore related are important to me as a RPvX or RPvP Player.
    I dont want to be a super Hero Avatar, i neither want other to be one, if i maybe need to fight them. My Role is non aggressive, i want to research these Ruins etc...
    Ya i know no one is there, but thats a question of principle - i already inestigated 3 of 8 Scenes - but if i meet some PK i want to have a slight chance, or i want to have a chance with my group.
    But we have players that are 10 times stronger, the get not hit my a group of lets say 5 Level 80ies , and the oneshoot all of them one after another. CRAP!
    If i stick to my role (4 magic schools, light armor, no shield, no chainmail, no 2 wands.. etc...) ican level as far as i want - i wont be competetive and thats a bad balance imo.
    Its not what we had in UO afaik.

    So my RP is heavily connected to gamemechanics, i play what i am (digitally) and i am more the Type of Roleplayer who roleplays while PvE or embedd both Pve and PvP in RP stories what are told before, while and after a session of playing.
    what others do are socializing events - more or less roleplay, all fine, i like that too, i visit some of them i even was the host of one in my house, but thats not the only thing in understand from roleplay in a online RPG.

    exactly this is what i want and the thread has derailes from the troll topic - i just dont get it that trolls are super resistant against my specific magic. No Problem!
    I just asked me why the hell i am doing no Damage to him - I can manage his damage, avoid his attacks and such, my movement skills and overallskills to play the game arent that bad.
    I know how to kite , i stack things, i have many situational decks out of my 4 schools - 5 with Armor.
    what i dont like to be is additionally an archer or Firemage or whatever - i want that diversity you talk of - and i am pro PvP in this game.
    I even would vote for FFA Full Loot PvP if the Games Mechanics were balanced and such.

    I am absolutely for making the game harder, less comfort mechanics and such, i really like it hardcore. But the only hardcore thing we have is grinding, because of the imbalances.

    Yes you can seperate in a private bubble and such, play it as Coop Game and only with likeminded people, i dont need to care about highlevels and their efforts or whatever.
    Sure i agree, but... PvP Scenes are very important to me, because of Lore and Story etc... and they are beautiful zones, have somewhat better loot (obsidian chips for example).
    And i like PvP somehow, i like the thrill.
    Actually i can manage T5 scenes, but i cannot manage Uber Avatars - that annoys me and the solution is to 1. abandon the content or abandon my role and selfrestrictions.
    both are not easy decisions.
    actually i have no solution if things dont change.

    the Game has one big Problem (and sure some smaller problems) singleplayer mechanics for Multiplayer modes.
    The SP caters not that good like other SP RPG's and the MP part sucks because of less diversity of chars and PvP want you to skill all magic schools to be competetive.
    Maybe it changes, but i actually doubt it, because we have loud voices who want me to leave as a casual because they like to powergrind and min max etc...
    I would say that is the part for SP offline, but bad for any MP mode.
    yes - thank you for caring - really - i am frustrated, not for the first time - i can overcome this after some pause, i really like very much of the game, setting, grafix, combatsystem, hard mbs to kill, hard to survive and earn money, hard to level a pure Mage etc... (but not all schools) .

    i am not native english speaking, maybe some things i argue arent well spelled or miss a more polite or more reserved attitude.

    I never want to others be upset about me or accuse them or change their playstyle - but i am convinced that what we have know need to change, if they want the MP part a success.
    If they want PvP a vital part of the MP Game and if they want a flourishing economy, more players playing and partaking.

    UO created something where people RP'd without any intention. there are games that promote RP mechanics, dependencies etc...
    And i think every single Super Hero destroys that.
    I just try to be a voice for more RPG in this game and not RPG Elements!

    I am not that type of Roleplayer who does swollen talk and need 5 dresses to express himself, i dont want to sit somewhere talking 4 hours.
    Maybe 1 hours and then fight 2 hours and then again talk 1 hour about the "adventure".

    dont know if i can explain what i want and why i want changes in this direction. Forget the troll, i miss he is restiant, fine for me, not a cause to beginn to be an archer or Firemage.
     
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  10. Bekido

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    im not going through 6 pages of posts to figure out whats already been said so heres my 2 cents on the OP.

    Trolls seem to be magical resistant, ive tried a few different magics and at 100 ice arrow i do maybe 5-10 dmg to him 30 with a crit (we talkin big troll or little troll btw?)

    Physical damage seems to be best for taking on the troll, as for balance at a higher level magic spells hurt a lot, most PVE encounters however have high magic resistance. Its very hard to do PVE as a pure mage at lower level. I think going ranged is a great addition to magery. Killing the troll isnt about surviving his damage, when i fight the boss troll if he hits me im dead thats all there is to it. Hes going to knock me down and confuse me and ill die to the 2nd shot. So its all about not being hit, jump when he stomps blink away from the rock and stay behind him as much as possible. For learning the troll fight i watched Saladid and Jobe do it in stream then jobe made a youtube tutorial on how its done (little dated but still relevant)
     
  11. Wintermute of CoF

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    I think trolls are actually reasonably resistant to fire in terms of direct damage, the main benefit of fire compared to other magic schools vs trolls is that the tick damage blocks their regen. You could achieve the same thing with Rend or poison.
     
  12. DeadnGone

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    Well if it's about taking on players in PvP, this is something else entirely. As it is, I think they should just focus on getting all the PvE problems down and then work on PvP when they are done. There is quite a lot of disparity in strength of players in the PvP realm. Those that have perfected their craft and have all the gear to go along with it can truly shine and destroy parties of lesser players. I do not see it being fixed anytime soon unfortunately so you will just have to work around it for now by either not flagging or staying away from the PvP zones or if you are using them as shortcuts to get to other areas, like Krul for example, you can have others traverse it and teleport to them once they get through it.

    One very nice thing about PvP in old Ultima Online was that even lower skilled players, even in crap gear, could still damage and chase off others. The mechanics lessened the disparity between those players with really good gear and skills and those lacking so they could still be killed. Now, 1 on 1, you would still lose... but if multiple players joined in, they could turn the tides. Not so much in this game. Some players can do some really big hits in PvP and shrug off anything you throw at them based on their builds. Perhaps they can eventually change the mechanics so they can be strong in PvE, but lessen the disparity when it comes to PvP in the amount of damage, resistance, etc to human players.




    Yeah there is no easy answer for this atm other than to stay away from those areas for now. Most of them have nothing in them and only a few mobs. If you wanted to just farm obsidian chips, for example, you could find other places with obsidian golems or other mobs that drop them regularly, like bottom of Hilt Fortress or Lich spawn areas, or heavy populations of mage-type npcs.

    As said above, right now there is no way to easily overcome heavily invested PvP characters without being somewhat invested yourself. Even in same builds, the person with higher attunment, higher skills, better gear is usually going to win vs those without, even if they are actually really good at PvP, here or elsewhere in gaming. I think if the Developers put too much focus on PvP now, itll still wind up messing the game down the road because you would need to rework all the schools of magic and fields to make sure they are adequate for some kind of PvP... and right now they are still trying to get the base game polished. If they are going to add more skills/magic, etc, they would need to focus on both PvE/PvP aspects. I love PvP... but if things are not right in PvE then I'd want them to fix that first.

    They would have to have each school/sphere have certain inclusives that balance out the field. Like, Moonmagic... all it has for damage is Meteors... certainly not the same as the School of Death. The sphere seems more based around support or utility spells. Even the pet is "meh" atm. It's debuffs do not really affect a lot of mobs. So I think each school should have both offensive & defensive combat magic (each unique and not just another "ray" that does the same but different name), each have their own utility & support spells, and pets... well, maybe another pass as most have pets, but perhaps a choice of at least 2 per school and put them all on a scale and weigh their abilities and usefulness vs the others. This goes for any new sets/schools, etc in the future as well.

    And just an FYI... I suck at damage. Im the type that usually wears things down over time... especially mobs like Trolls. My friends in their archer builds can run up and two shot things while im screwing around for 2 minutes with my focus bar half gone, lol. It's just not even close to what archers can do throughout the game, early, mid, late stages. I can survive however, but sometimes the extra minute of life doesnt mean much if I cant kill in certain situations, but that was my choice, and I'm sticking to it for now. Let's not even talk about death or earth mages... lol, wreck my world! So yeah, I am sure eventually there will be more passes over PvP but for now it is what it is. The problem being they didn't start off with those balances when they started and having to go back and change is probably a lot of work without setting up the ground work for balances and/or "paper-rock-scissor" mechanics to begin with. I'm pretty sure no one wants "knee-jerk" reactions by the devs either everytime someone complains a certain build beat them either. Its just going to take a lot of time and effort to get it right and I'm not sure we should be focusing on that when so many areas still need to be done.
     
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  13. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Update here: I upgraded my GPU and proceeded to destroy the troll after a couple of tries.
     
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  14. Stundorn

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    Short question:

    Are Trolls vulnerable to Sun and Earth magic?

    Or only Fire!

    After completing the story i am thinking of getting some more trees.

    I once used Earth, but unlearned all.
    Going to improve my Undead Decks with Sun and maybe using Earth again to have more variations against Elementals or Trolls if this would work.
     
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  15. belijaal

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    They are vulnerable to sun but not to earth.
     
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  16. belijaal

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    Sorry but this is just wrong.

    Fire does a lot of damage to trolls, kills in under 2 minutes at the troll boss (not the mini bosses) are possible, I've yet to see another build kill him faster.

    Fire doesn't block any regen either. Rend and festering poison lower the health regen by applying a - healing modifier debuff, there's no blocking going on.
     
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  17. Wintermute of CoF

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    I thought any tick damage blocks regen? Though maybe I'm using the wrong term? If I'm stunned and/or confused and so unable to engage in melee then having a fire tick stops the troll's health shooting back up. Maybe it offseting the regen is what I'm seeing?
     
  18. belijaal

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    I think tick damage used to block regen completely. Seems to be the case in a few old videos I've seen.

    Yes, must be the the dot offsetting the regen that makes it look like it is blocked.
     
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  19. majoria70

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    Also in the case of immunities from our creatures which does happen in other games, there is something that could be in place to counter that. Other games have weapons that can have counters to immunity on them. Like Silver weapons used in other games to kill vampires for example. Why not have more abilities to create weapons such as great sword of fire which may work on one creature better and yet won't work as well on another creature who has fire immunity?

    Also with arrows there could be fire arrows, poison arrows, etc that work better on different creatures.

    I know these are not new ideas but I feel this should be revisited by @Devs to counter the argument from players who want to specialize and be fire mages, ice mages etc.

    So planning to kill a boss or mob would need more planning. Get those fire arrows or a special bow of incineration or mages staff of incineration that adds fire damage to our casts. That would be so fun to have epic weapons created or if found to have charges. We are missing some fun dynamics like this imo.

    I still do believe in making our bosses more intuitive and interesting and challenging as with all mobs but also give us tools to play how we each like.
     
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