how about this for death?

True for obviously dangerous stuff like dragons or huge mobs, but for newer players it's easy to overestimate your own abilities/underestimate enemies. The important thing is that when they then die, does it become a fun story of how they left town for the first time and got eaten by a wolf, or does it become a frustrating half-hour of trying to get their gear back that makes them quit the game?

 

If that is all it takes to make them quit the game, perhaps gaming is not for them. Everything is a learning experience.

 

If you're relentless to new players, it's a surefire way to discourage them and make them go play something else .

You have roughly 30-60 minutes to grab a new player and get them hooked enough to keep playing. If most of that time is them running around trying to get their gear back from a wolf or something, you can bet they'll probably go play something else.


Games are meant to be fun.

 

If a noob goes out and takes on something he has no business taking on, I hardly call that relentless. Noobs probably have nothing of value to lose anyway, since a noob weapon is probably bound to you, so go get res'ed in town and be more careful in the future, OK?

I imagine that SotA will give some indication of mob strength. Don't attack the ones with red or purple names. If Sota doesn't give that indication, then you know that thing that just tore you limb from limb? Don't attack that again.

 

You're applying your seasoned UO/Anti PK battle knowledge to this. Try seeing it from some new player's perspective. Someone who wasn't playing UO and getting their teeth knocked out and all of their loot stolen every 3 hours.

They're new. Expect them to do the dumbest things possible.

Value is completely relative. If the new player has no gold and loses all his gear, what's he supposed to do? Pick his nose and ask for handouts in town? If your current attitude is any indication of how that will work out, someone will probably just call them an idiot, tell them to learn how to play,

... and they'll go learn how to play a different game instead.

They probably won't be giving severe indications. There aren't even going to be health bars, right?



also there is a difference between a valuable learning experience, and an irritating one.

 

If it's a problem, it can be addressed in Alpha/Beta testing. This is not a reason to change the game design because a some noob somewhere might get frustrated. Let's see if it's a problem before we have the dev's jump through hoops, OK?

It's enough to make someone think that people throw the noob card as a tactic to eliminate game features they themselves don't like.

 

While most folk will be somewhere in the middle, "noobs" will outnumber elite players; everyone is new to the game at some point, but not everyone goes on to become a combat expert. If the game is not attracting and retaining new players at a decent rate, then the game itself will die.

New players are not likely to be able to judge what they have no business taking on. Sure, if they attack a dragon, that's dumb, but how about ogres? Wolves? Rats? Animals seem harmless enough... You're quite right about then learning "don't attack that again", and that's the scenario we want - new player goes out of town, attacks a bear, gets killed, and a year later while he's slaughtering people in PvP tells the tale of how when he was new he was eaten by the wildlife. But if instead they get killed by the bear, never manage to get back their stuff (that they think is important), then spend half an hour wandering around town asking for help while being mocked for being a noob, then they'll just leave the game.

Not all game players are hardcore gamers, and nor should we expect them all to be.

Personally, I like having an all-accessible-to-everyone, take-care-out-there, oops-you-have-been-eaten-by-a-grue type world, but making the game enjoyable for everyone, and ensuring that there remains a game to enjoy, is more important than pleasing the creme de la creme. In FPS terms, Pubbers outnumber Pros by a vast margin, so developers have to consider pubbers more than pros, even if those developers happen to be pros themselves.

 

I think you give new players too little credit. It's not likely that this will be their first rodeo. There have been plenty of other single player/multi-player games, both PC and console, both fantasy role playing and other genre's that they have probably played before.

You guys talk like new players spent their formative years locked in a closet, or something. #noobcard

 

People can be bad at a particular type of game without having been locked in a closet. And some people really are inexperienced. Or their experience comes from a game where characters start out more powerful than in this one.

Having an easy learning curve doesn't have to mean making the game worse for higher end players.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

Regardless of whether they're new or not, there needs to be a resurrection option for solo players that doesn't make death ruin their entire evening of playing. If you don't think stuff should jump to your ghost when you ressurect in the graveyard while soloing, what do you suggest?

 

If you can't do a corpse run, then you should go to town and re-equip using all the reasonably priced goods readily available at the multitude of vendors you will find there, or from supplies you keep in the bank.

Support your local crafter.

 

New players won't be alpha testing, most likely, so it won't even come up there.

Also, you should look up what jumping through hoops really means. Implying that it would be hard work to make the early parts of the game accommodating to new players is a bit dense. That's probably going to be one of the easiest parts of creating this game.

One could accuse you of doing the same thing with your veteran card to eliminate features you don't like because they'll get in the way of your preferred playing format.

I've also noticed that whenever a discussion hits a point where you don't have a counterpoint to make, you say "lets just wait it out.". If that's going to be your end-point, why even discuss it at all.


You have to consider the lowest common denominator. If a game caters exclusively to veterans and hardcore types, the game will probably not be very inviting to new players. It's good to encourage new players to the rodeo.

 

The purpose of Alpha/Beta testing is to ensure that there are few problems for noobs to encounter. That's why it's called 'testing'.

 

No kidding. However, if everyone in alpha/beta is Johnny McVeteranPowerGamer, it's likely the problems won't be caught.

 

So do you make the game easy to start off with (limiting them on what they can do) and then make things harder as you go along.
Or
Do you drop the players into everything at once and let them figure things out.

 

This one.

It's not 1998/9 anymore. Throwing people in head first will just send people running to every other game out there that has a welcoming learning curve.

 

That depends what you mean. I don't like the kind of game model where you start in places where all the monsters are easier, then as you progress in the game, all monsters are harder. This is a kind of artificial fence.

I'd rather there be safe areas and dangerous areas, and just make clear to the player what areas are safe and what are dangerous, and what he's capable of facing. Naturally, the area around towns and around the roads will be safer, so to find danger, you'd have to travel distances, such as into deep forests, across oceans, out of the beaten path, and so on. The more advanced you are as a player, the more likely you'll venture out the distances necessary to find danger. NPCs should also comment on the nature of the danger. If your skill and weaponry isn't able to defeat a certain threat -- say a dragon -- there should be clear warnings everywhere in the game of this fact.

 

Yea, having not played to many MMO's lately and then trying SWTOR, I did not like having to be led on a path.
I much rather have the open feel and decide for myself where I want fight at.

But other things can maybe start off easier like just needing to pay attention to your health bar and maybe weight.
As you move on through the game things could get harder like stamina, sleep, hunger, thirst, sickness, body temperature, emotions, etc.
That way you don't overwhelm people at first.
Stuff like that.