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How do we get potions to matter?

Discussion in 'Release 34 Feedback Forum' started by Mitara, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Not sure, I don't specialise the life tree either
    My healing touch at level 80 with ...pretty crappy life attunement heals 31-44 (non-crit) and costs 12 focus. Mostly its used for topping up between combat.
    Currently I have 686 health. If I'm at the point where I'm in danger of death and need a potion, and am going to take the time to watch the potion animation go while continuing to be be beat on, it needs to be a significant enough heal to be not only worth the slot its occupying on my combat bar but also the cost of making the things in bulk and the weight of carrying them around.
    I agree though with health potions, they are pretty useless as you've got many, many better options.
    Focus potions on the other hand, would actually be quite useful, if they healed enough focus to matter.
    Same deal with cost and weight, except currently healing 40 focus might get me 2 more nukes. Its pretty pointless.

    Its only because of the regen nerf (and promises of more fun, future regen nerfs) that I'm even considering potions at this point - even as a gm alchemist, but in their current form, they are pretty crappy. I wouldn't want to see combat become a potion-chugging game, but they at least need to do a couple hundred points of healing to be worth messing with. Or have tiered potions,which is an interesting idea. But the inability to use them without taking up a bar slot I think is the biggest obstacle. And if they are too expensive to craft, then again they are equally pointless.

    At the moment, the small, crappy, heals-40 focus potion costs 68 gold at vendor prices for materials.
    Considering I spend 3k restocking regs after I go fight as is, which is already usually operating at a loss unless I start selling crafting materials, and I now also have to buy food, having to also buy a bunch of these isn't viable with the current economic system.
     
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  2. Mitara

    Mitara Avatar

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    At GM level, healing do not provide more than 50-60 heal, according to the tooltip. Potions needs to be able to compete and even grant a little more than the usual FREE heal. So either the poitions has to heal somewhat more than the 60 or it has to heal 60 and grant and HOT (heal over time) as well.
     
  3. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Yeah I don't think I'd bother for 60, either. With a HoT effect, maybe, if it didn't take a combat slot. The fact that its gotta go on the bar is I think the biggest deterrent, that and the cost if you expect to use one every couple of fights. As an emergency measure, I'm ok with a higher cost, but again, use a slot on an emergency measure? I have one of those fruit things that is a 100% heal and I have never used it for precisely this reason. I find the plant decorating my front yard to be more useful.
     
  4. Aribeth

    Aribeth Avatar

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    I like the idea of toxicity bar or maybe levels: The more potions used, more intoxicated you become. Your toxicity levels should decrease with time and could be affected by: beneficial spells from you or an ally, detrimental spells/attacks from enemies (poison), equipped item properties, etc..

    Intoxication effects when your bar/levels are near max: Blurry vision, damage, slow focus regeneration, etc.
     
  5. Lifedragn

    Lifedragn Avatar

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    @kaeshiva

    Are you battling mostly oranges and up? I can certainly agree that potions should be useable from inventory without taking up a slot. But a lot of the issues you encounter as far as adventuring difficulty and costs make it seem like you are burning a lot of resources. In late R33 I was able to go out grow my XP pool, raise my skills, and come back with not only enough gold and items to sell for gold that I was also able to afford a couple hundred crafting fuels to also grow my crafting skill, restock my reagents, and still keep a small profit. In R34 I can do the same... only faster because the mobs have insane respawns now... My reagent cost has increased a little, as I have to resummon my elemental more often because of the spawns, but still within profitable range.
     
  6. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    @Lifedragn
    No, pretty much everything in the game is green to me unless I go someplace like The Rise. Saw an obsidian bear other day, that was yellow.

    I can carry about 500 pounds of 'stuff' (loot) and unless I'm optimising that (which means I'm in melee mode cash farming), I might get 2k for it from the blacksmith. Reg restock alone costs well over that. Usually I break even from the gold drops. Sometimes I even come out ahead a few hundred.

    I play as a pure mage about 50% of the time, the other 50% I play as melee so I can afford reagents the rest of the time.
    This both by not burning regs while doing content that doesn't need full "power", and by using melee-mode to mass farm trivial mobs and take their stuff to sell for cash.
    Playing melee is super gold efficient, since the only thing its going to cost me is a couple repair kits every couple runs. But its not what I like to play and grinding green crap for money is boring and I feel like I have to do it, daily, to keep playing what I like and to keep crafting.

    I've kinda resigned myself to being a melee character unless I'm going to go do something 'difficult', but once they add in skill decay that wont be happening so the whole thing may be completely moot.

    At the moment, every day I have to spend at least an hour grinding some sort of trivial cash-dropping content (with a melee weapon and a 'no regs' deck) to be able to afford that days reagents, foods, crafting fuels, etc. Thank god I've not got rent to worry about. The potion thing? Yeah, can't see myself using one unless I'm fighting somewhere difficult where its actually needed, in which case 60hp is not going to cut it. :) Focus pot same deal. And they are too expensive to use to mitigate downtime.
     
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  7. Lifedragn

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    What does your with reagent mage deck actually look like? Just out of curiosity.
     
  8. Stryker Sparhawk

    Stryker Sparhawk Avatar

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    Potions currently are a place holder. Stronger versions are supposed to appear and may be based on brewing/distillation for potency.

    Bandages have also been talked about. Cotton anyone?
     
  9. Birne Gilmore

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    I would like to see them with more effect, but may be they should not be just "one time wonders" of HP-giving ... What's with very short reg boost. For example the easiest version (the only one now) would heal 50 instantly and then +10 for 10 secs. If the cooldown would be long enough this would be a great help and worth a slot in the bar.

    And on the bar-topic: The idea to have a small bar for consumables (lets say 5 places for Heal, Focus, Food, Drink, Bla) would be enough. Could also be handled by an ingame item like a belt. The better the belt, the more slots you get from it ;)
     
  10. Armitage_

    Armitage_ Avatar

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    I really like this idea. I think people would actually use potions if they didn't have to consume a hotbar slot for them.
     
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  11. LiquidSky

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    I heal over 100hp with healing grace. About 30 with healing touch.


    I cast healing grace at the start of combat and a lot of times i have full health when combat ends.
     
  12. Couldin

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    The single combat bar is incredibly restricting. It feels like that's the answer for "balancing" the game out. It restricts you from doing many combos and is really holding back a lot of cool things that could be done.
     
  13. Blightlord Knightmare

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    (For me personally, IMHO) Pots would have to do a full heal (or at the very, very least 300HP over 6 seconds .. like 25 every 0.5 seconds) and not be able to become interrupted before I would ever consider using one. Until then, they're just vendor trash.
     
  14. Lifedragn

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    At that point it becomes foolish not to use them, which becomes another problem. The sweet spot is where they can give you an edge but aren't a no-brainer option. If you don't have to think about whether it is good to use it, then it is bad design. Right now it is bad because you know you shouldn't. In the scenario you describe it is bad because you know you should.
     
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  15. Blightlord Knightmare

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    Actually, that was the lowest-level scenario I am willing to entertain, although note that I didn't mention what the ingredients or costs would be. If a potion isn't healing you for at least 80% health, nearly instantly, I honestly can't imagine a scenario where I would ever want to use one. Especially if they can be interrupted, they have to be instantaneous like the old-school Diablo pots. Once again, this is just me personally. Out of the last 50 RPGs I've played, I've probably only used potions maybe 3 times. I usually end up saving them until the "end of the game" for either the last boss, or to sell, or I just end up not using them ever. Sometimes I plan on using them for a Raid boss or final boss, but I still end up not using them.