The way RG et al. have been talking about food sounds like it's going to be mainly used for hp regen, and maybe buffs. I'm not sure exactly what mechanism this is going to take (is bread going to be the same thing as a healing potion, or will your natural regen just worsen if you don't eat bread for a long time?), but I want to offer an opinion on hunger. I really like the idea that, if I'm going for a long travel, I need to bring some traveling gear with me. It seems silly to just leave town, sprint 100 miles, and be across the world without stopping. I want to run the risk of running out of something essential (food), and needing to scavenge for berries or hunt rabbits to make sure I make it to my destination safely. Making food a necessity also gives crafters more business, and food is basically a sink for the economy since (obviously) it's consumable. So, make food pretty essential. Of course, this needs to be balanced with not making food/hunger tedious. So here's what I think might work: 1) Have a hunger bar/meter/counter. Obviously when you eat, this goes up, and it slowly goes down (the speed can be a dial the devs can play with) 2) When you are hungry, you are less effective in combat, leaving you vulnerable to being waylaid by enemies if you are traveling. You also regen slower, meaning if you are attacked and survive, you will be even less prepared for the next fight. If you are VERY hungry, maybe you even travel slower. It will become increasingly perilous to travel as you get hungrier. (obviously more dials the devs can play with) 3) To make food management less annoying, have a "food bag" you can toss your food into, which will (optionally) automatically be consumed from. 4) Most of the time towns will be close enough together that you can travel from one to the other without too much trouble. But, you might have to make stops at towns along the way to restock if you are traveling far (bringing more business to smaller towns/villages!). But perhaps a couple of special locations are very far away from anything, so you'll have to stock up, maybe take a pack animal, and might along the way need to stop and scavenge for food. This might also make sea journeys feel more epic - you'll need to stock the holds with food to make sure you don't starve on your way there!
With number 3, Everquest 2 had food and drink as equipment slots, where your character would consume them as appropriate.
While I don't think one should 'starve' and die, I do think there should be penalties for not being fed. You wouldn't leave town without your weapons and armor, reagents for your magic, why would you leave town without food. Some additional gameplay perks from having food matter. You are traveling and run into another player or NPC who needs food. You share some with them and perhaps gain some compassion. (obviously this would have to be limited in scope as to how often you can gain to avoid exploitation) Do you have enough, can you spare any? Does your giving up food end up becoming a sacrifice because you packed enough for your trip? Having some need to hunt/forage also while traveling would be cool. I get that we don't want food / drink to be a 'burden', but if you just write it off as a small perk you will cut the potential business of cooks by a lot. You will end up with only a few foods that people want to have for specific perks, and the system is suddenly lack luster.
Yeah, I don't think starving and dieing is necessary to make food important. Just make going completely without food nonviable. If you haven't eaten in days, travel should be damn hard, and your probability of dieing should skyrocket the longer you go without it. I like your ideas, I think making food essential really opens up a lot of new possibilities. On the road, food is important, and what you do with it is important. Bandits attacking your gypsy wagon or pack animal and making off with the food should be a big deal. Here's another idea to reduce food's potential tediousness: Food consumption might not necessarily be tied just to time. Maybe traveling takes considerably more food than sitting around in town. Maybe if you make your character sit or lay down, hunger slows almost entirely, so there is no fear of going AFK and running through your food. To make it more important for the crafters: the food bag might have limited capacity, but crafters could make especially nutritious food that is relatively lightweight and very filling, so this would be in high demand for those long journeys. Of course, food could also give extra buffs and have other effects above and beyond what it does for hunger. But I think making hunger a factor, and making food more than a system for giving perks and buffs, is important. Otherwise, food is just weirdly shaped buff potions.
Many nice ideas! There is one thing, I don't want to see with food, and that is the buff food, we are seeing in many MMOs, where it is mandatory to eat some buff food, before engaging a boss enemy, often directly in front of him. Eating food (especially big food) in front of a demon beast was always strange for me and it became repetitive and tedious, when you had to stop in front of every boss monster for 5 minutes, until all buffs are activated, everybody took his buff food and other buff items. It always took the dynamic out of the game. And it was especially strange, when the Boss you were fighting was some announced as clever and cunning, but never bothered, when you were standing in sight and taking a feast.
Under the Garden had an interesting food/hunger system but I wouldn't recommend it for SotA! I would like for food to fit in somewhere useful. I sort of agree with the "weirdly shaped buff potions statement". There are some nice ideas in this thread but the danger is a hunger meter has you constantly "watching the clock" if it depletes too quickly, instead of focusing on the rest of the game. Perhaps meal types and quality can make a difference with a "fine cooked meal" prepared by a good player chef enough to last you 24 hours and poorer quality meals lasting less so. Of course a fine cooked meal is more something you eat at home or at an inn or something. It's harder to drag with you on adventures.
I don't think having a hunger meter necessarily means it's something you constantly need to keep an eye on. The way I'm envisioning it, it is more of something you need to worry about when traveling. While sitting around in town, your meter won't deplete very quickly, and even if it gets kind of low you probably have a snack in your food bag that will automatically be consumed, so you don't have to worry. When leaving town, though, you better stock up on supplies, because traveling will deplete those resources! And keeping an eye on food levels while traveling won't, I don't think, be something tedious or distracting. So I guess depletion levels in different conditions is just one of those knobs the devs would have to play with, to make it so you're not watching the clock.
@Alayth, I'd like to see your comments on the ideas my thread <a href="https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=eatingsleepingweatheretc-stats">this thread</a>. A few basic points: * Hunger, even if it drains your stats, would do so at a slow rate, since people can live for food for 30-40 days. It wouldn't even be necessary to eat every day, just to give you a benefit. A game day I think is about an hour. * You would eat while setting up at a camp, where you can also sleep, put on bandages, train, adjust your available skills etc. This gives you a specific "break time" that would be host to a lot of game activities for the player. You could even have a bard to play a tune to boost the party morale and provide a buff. (I miss U5) * I don't think automatic consumption is really necessary, if other game mechanics are followed that don't make eating a nuisance, chore, or an unfun experience that takes you out of enjoyment of the game. People are too afraid that it will out of necessity be unfun. But yea, you can read the whole thread, its a bit more fleshed out.
Well say our progression in this game is a skill pt based one. Wouldn't it make sense that the satiated hero who is nourished and well fed would excel a bit more than one who is mal-nourished or starving. Faster skill gain, hp/mana regen and perhaps gain stam/endo slower when hungry. Lot's of small things that could be done once the devs get more of the moeat and potatoes.
+1 @everyone - I think food should play a substantial role in the game for all of the reasons you guys have stated and I think that's the plan because every plot house layout includes a place for your garden. I'm not sure if I like the idea of skill loss or hp loss due to lack of food, but stamina and ability to learn are two that should be impacted. Still on the fence if food should include a buff. I've never gained 100 strength from something I ate although if I can brew up a fresh cup of coffee before fighting a LL my swing rate and focus would probably increase I'm in favor of automatic consumption as well.
@redfish I like your ideas (and commented on that thread). I really like the idea of camping, though I would like to see it fleshed out a bit more, but I think our ideas could complement each other. @rschultzy80 The issue I have with small changes (which I think is what they're thinking now) is that you can easily ignore food when traveling across the continent. If all it effects is my learning rate, and I'm just traveling to get across the continent not to level up, why bother with food? I want packing enough food to be essential to long-distance travel - if you don't, you're unlikely to make it to your destination. @Illesac I am in favour of <i>temporary</i> skill losses being the penalty for hunger - particularly things like combat skills, and maybe perception (if that's a thing), making you more likely to be waylaid and unable to defend yourself if you're starving (or, riffing off of redfish, tired)
I agree with @Alayth. There should be a reason to consume food, rather then it just being another part of the game. It should be something that players should have to keep in mind, if hunger is to play any kind of role. I also like the idea of temporary penalties. Perhaps your strength and agility would decrease, and over time, certain skills, such as focus and tactics, and eventually other major skills would be slightly affected.
This thread has been discussed several time already, but I agree that starvation and thirst should be in the game. I think death is a bit harsh for games today, but definitely debuffs that stack as you continue to starve. There is no need for slots as food could just be eaten from your inventory if you have it and are able to starve. It could start with low value food (grapes decrease your hunger less than steaks) working its way up as your inventory clears. That said, I am pretty sure the devs are leaning to food as a supplement (buff) and not as a necessity.
@Umbrae The fact that the devs are leaning towards food as a supplement was a big part of my motivation for starting this thread So far, everyone in the community that I've seen seems in favour of the idea of it playing a more necessary role. So, let our voices be heard!
