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I don't want to play alone

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Violation Clauth, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. Sold and gone

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    I might be wrong, but if you do the story line progression from the beginning, I believe they said you might come out around lvl 30. So just play the game and you wont have any worries.
     
  2. Soulicide

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    I get it and you get it. Because we're rational people. Going to stop right there before I go more off-topic. >.<
     
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  3. Frank Bach

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    Try to do the quest you receive at solace bridge to gain adventure XP! Then take the boat next to Adoris/in Adoris to the Hidden Vale. South and north valeway seem to be pretty OK for getting the first experience. Avoid spiders! You maybe should swap to the Glyph fighting system, this is faster and more Focus friendly!
     
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  4. Brandhor

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    Thanks for the tips, I had most success in working myself up from southern valeway, after raising a few levels things become easier quickly.

    At level 1 the zombies make me ill nd kill me too quickly, and i used the cure potions in r20.
    Now I have the purify spell so I have no problems with zombie anymore.
    Is there something similar like neutralise poison that makes fright8ing spiders easier? couldnt find that yet.

    One question though pokes me, swapping to the glyph fighting system? I thought I'm using right that with the decks?
     
  5. 4EverLost

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    The deck has 3 states in which it can be used.

    If you're starting out new, it comes with a locked deck - the cards(=glyphs) always are there, they won't pop up or slide down to disappear. I like to think of it as a standard hot bar with cooldown. You can't combo on these.

    If you've unlocked all the slots (the lock icon is opened) - it's a unlocked deck where the cards can pop up at random in any position. What is sometimes called a whack-a-mole:) You can combo on these.

    If you unlock some of them, you get the hybrid deck - you can place glyphs in certain slots (more than one glyph can be placed in those unlocked slots) and they'll appear there. This way you can know that these glyphes will always appear here. It's not a bad way to combo.
    You can also lock some slots permanently in place so they always stay there - like light spell in slot 8, purify in slot 9, etc. These cards won't slide and will always be there - but might be in cooldown. You can't combo on these.
    You can also leave some slots open with no glyphs in, so you can have whack-a-moles. I like whack-a-moling and mostly use these for miscellaneous combos, with themselves or the other unlocked glyph slots.
     
  6. Soulicide

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    Had an awesome time last night exploring the Epitaph with my guild mates. We took down the troll there a few times then decided to head to Wynton's Folly to check out the phoenix. Phoenix was too much for us so we ran around explored and killed the large skeletons there. I was getting great exp and leveled up a ton. Plus it was fun. If nobody in my guild is on, I will go to an area and just ask in local if anyone wants to group up. Sometimes I'll just approach someone that looks like they're having a rough time staying alive and ask if they want a healer to tag along. I've met some nice fellow adventurers that way and keep building the list of peeps who enjoy grouping. I think we need more encounters that require group cooperation. Even for essential quests.
     
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  7. Sold and gone

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    I like the idea that player based guilds could help new players like "new" in UO
     
  8. sn0tub

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    I'm going to say it.

    This game has no clear goals or methodology.

    The combat is mediocre at best, sandbox elements and quest lines seem hodge podge . Most social is done through other systems with chat being clumsy.

    It needs to cater for people wanting single player content, people wanting group play throw pvp into the mix and it's three cats in a bag.

    There have been no clear goals and instead of working on game systems we have an inflated add on store.

    I am sorely disappointed in this game and how they have gone about development. By now combat and basic character progression should be nutted out.

    But everything is OK right they listen to the "players"
     
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  9. leilakin

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    I'm sorry that you think this game sucks without a group of 4+ people.
    I disagree.

    As a new player, I found this game to be interesting, alluring, engaging, challenging, and fun. I bring new players into the game all the time with my twitch stream giveaways and they report that they also like it.

    Some players do not want a hand held system. They want to figure things out. I think SotA is for that kind of player.

    I also really enjoy playing alone or with just one other person, or randomly wandering around, bumping into other players and teaming up for a bit, then going off on my own again.

    To each his own, they say!
     
  10. Ship One

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    I also started out fresh in R21 by deleting and remaking. Using the bridge sword and shield I gained from the intro quest and doing just 2 of the beginning quests, East Perennial Trail was the zone right next to Soltown. No spiders there. Just Skellies, Ruffians, bandits, Zombies and Bears I think. All soloable with the danger for adds if one isn't careful. Drops sellable in Soltown, easy money to buy skill trees and embark into your preferred build.

    What this DOES NOT really afford are people who do not want to use a sword. Thus, the starting town should have beginner blunt, ranged, arrows, polearms, staffs and wands at low prices. I think that leather armor is good enough for all classes to start on their way. Either that or be allowed to select a 'beginner archetype' based on just having different weapons in the weapons rack to pick from and then starter skills attached to that selection. (Or perhaps questions to answer to build your archetype like in the Ultima of old) The starting skills are paramount because it's 100gp each additional tree opener you want to go to. I think this price should be 10gp to be honest so you can afford the trees you want AND have enough money to buy what you want as far as weapons in Soltown. Thus, you start off as you want, not cloistered into using a sword from the get go.
     
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  11. Bubonic

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    Apparently there has been a quantum flux... a quickening.

    Some sort of conjunction.


    A tear in the fabric of space/time.




    I agree with everything Violation said here.
     
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  12. Violation Clauth

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    So if nothing changes from how it is now you think this game is fulfilling as a single player experience?

    I feel like the lack of understanding on who to attack when, how to progress, what progression is, what feedback we get during combat, what feedback we get about doing right and wrong, and where we are lured to go next are all lacking... personally.

    I love the game and I'm extremely happy with it's state. I'm not giving this feedback to be cruel or to be unfair. I just wanted to make a point that the single player experience got damaged more over the last few releases than usual. I used to be able to play a LOT easier solo and since ~R17 I haven't been able to and this release (R21) has been the most difficult for me.

    Not directed at anyone but just general feedback after many more hours and after getting some friends to power me up to 10 so I could be more competitive on my own...

    I have identified many of the issues and can say that I naturally started in the wrong spot.
    1. I started in the wrong spot. Due to my levels being wiped and logging out in my POT from R20 I started there in R21. I found that it really hurt me. There's no way out of my region without facing level 30+ monsters AND the hit chances, which are invisible stats, are penalized for more than a 10 level separation at a higher rate the more it's separated. This made it so I couldn't get to the new area without leapfrogging deaths.
      1. The fix: when you wipe our levels, reset our login location to the new player experience zone.
    2. I can't see my enemies level so it took me a while to figure out what things I was supposed to attack. The visual feedback on "success" is lacking in this manner. When I succeed in life I know it instantly because of the feedback I get. In this game the success feedback is a yellow spark under my feet that I got over and over but my gaming experience didn't change ... I kept missing. I couldn't kill anything. I didn't level. Why do levels matter in this regard?! The ability to hit should be conquered extremely quickly with skill gain and NOT be based on adventurer level. The adventure level should exclusively be the experience pool. I can fight something that is way bigger and stronger than me when I'm a master and simply do less damage to it. I doubt I'd have 80% chance to miss a stationary target as an archer because... oh... I am an archer in real life (I'm thinking about a training video for you sometime @Chris :D)!
      1. The fix: move hit chance to be exclusively based on visible stats like dex and skill for melee/ranged and int and skill for magic users.
    3. There aren't many "aggressive" easy monsters (mongbats anyone?). I freely elected to pick what would be virtue for me in this game. Without any direction or suggestion I decided to be a defensive leveler. I would only attack and kill things that attacked me first or to assist one of my companions if they were losing a fight that would cost their life in a neutral battle. If they were fighting a good, in my eyes, opponent I wouldn't step in to assist. Most of the things people are killing for low level experience aren't attacking them. To me, they're good. Why in the world am I forced to go kill rabbits and deer and things that I don't want to! I could care less about this in real life. My father is a hunter. I think that hunting for food is 100% okay and I've even killed a few of these animals to get some food so I'm able to make it in-case that's needed. I'm not going to wastefully slaughter hundreds of them for minor experience gain and I find it appalling to my Avatar's morals to farm animals wastefully just to gain skill.
      1. The fix: more low level "bad" monsters that aggressively attack you that you can kill to skill up on.
    I personally hate the whole levelgate (deflategate?) thing we're going through but I'm 100% done fighting it because I am happy with the system that's been put in place. If there's a design reason to have enemy monster levels it's beyond my ability to understand and I'm okay with that. I think we're moving in the right direction and I think I'm just overly excited about the skill-based-progression update and had my hopes set WAY higher than they should have been and realize that I'm still EXTREMELY happy with what got done in a first month switch-flip on this system.

    What does everyone feel about this feedback. Do you think my three fix suggestions create problems in other areas that mean they shouldn't be introduced? Do you think my reasons for asking for them are 100% wrong and shouldn't be addressed for some reason, even though I think they're valid? Hit me back, lets keep this conversation going because I love how many people express their views both ways.

    Cheers!

    edit: to be clear, I am saying I haven't been able to put minutes into playtesting single player since about R17 and this release (R21) has been the most difficult single player playtesting I've done. That read as if I haven't been able to play single player even though I tried and that isn't the way I meant it.
     
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  13. Lord Ravnos

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    I think hit chance based on levels is silly as well. The only reality I can apply to it is, I'm so "scared" of the monster, that my arrow flubs and flies in the wrong direction, even though the mob is stationary... which is stretching that explanation a bit thin.
     
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  14. leilakin

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    Hey! In response to your question, do I think the “game is fulfilling as a single player experience?” I refer you to 100s of hours of Twitch streaming video highlights of mine in which I am tickled, delighted, and having a blast in Shroud of the Avatar, almost always playing alone. This game, as it is right now, has provided ample entertainment, including as a single player experience. Just by watching me having fun in the game, people on my stream have wanted to buy into the game.


    Regarding your 3 points:

    1. You say you started in the wrong spot.

    I found this to be a really fun part of playing after a wipe. The whole trying to figure things out experience is very gamey, challenging, and immersive to me. For instance, in the r21 wipe, I had a total blast going from zone to zone, running around, trying to kill things, dying, getting more tactical (kiting while auto attacking with staff and regenning enough focus to heal, for instance.)

    Eventually after a lot of fun discovery, exploring, and game play I found a a couple nice spots where I can skill things and gather.


    2. You say you don’t like that you can’t see the enemies’ levels.

    I also like this. I do not want to know until I have tried to engage or been forced to engage and either failed or succeeded in killing the enemy. Again, for me, it’s a fun part of the game play to experiment and explore, testing my abilities against opponents I encounter.


    3. You say there aren’t enough easy aggressive monsters.

    I found that mobs wandering around the East Perennial Trail were both aggressive and easy to kill. I also found Greynark, near Braemar, which has smaller wolves that attack and have been easy to kill. Encounters outside of Soltown and Braemar also had mobs that attacked me and were easy to kill. Also the South Celestial Wetlands, outside of Solania have easy, aggressive mobs, and the Ruined Keep outside of Owl’s Head also has aggressive, easy mobs.

    One thing I like about this is that the local npcs in these areas give you quests to go to these areas, so the game does have a built in clue system for where to go hunt and fight.
    Again, it was a matter of exploring the areas in the game and finding one in which I could match my wits to the enemy.


    Overall, the three points you make seem to tie together regarding the aggressiveness and ease of killing the mobs that attack you, and having trouble finding where they are in the game. I think who to attack, where and when, and a measure of how we are progressing is given to us in dialouges with npcs and our journals, as well as just our own sense of adventure, exploration, and discovery.

    I found that exploring can yield what you’re looking for, and in the process of trial and error you can get into deck tweaking, gear choices, and combat tactics to help you survive the foes you encounter.

    Edited to add areas with aggressive, easy to kill mobs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  15. 4EverLost

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    @Violation Definitely would agree with (1) especially after a wipe, although it is kind of funny having to do a gauntlet run through the mobs sometimes:D

    Other than that, if they would only move the starting point back to Hidden Vale, it would help a lot with the starter problems. I went there right after starting and didn't have all that much trouble with the mobs in south vale or kings road as long as I avoided the spiders. Soloing for me, didn't change all that much since release 14.

    Of course, I did stick to the skills they give you from the beginning. It might have been different if I had changed skill and started with all the beginner skills for another class. So, maybe what they also need to do is 'give' us the beginner skills for the other classes as well? (Maybe it's too much work for them at the moment?)

    Something that is equivalent to what they give you if you were using the sword so you could kill things other than rabbits/deer - which for me were nearly impossible to kill, by the way. They kept running away from me so quickly I could sympathize with some of the mobs feelings when I run away from them. :mad: Stop, you darn vermin! I haven't even drawn my sword on you! Yet.......:p
     
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  16. Duke William of Serenite

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    @Violation. I actually like the level gate and having to group up to play the lower levels. At level thirty I can solo pretty damn well. If you leveled up with your wife to thirty which I did in like 6-8 hours I think you will see things differently. Also get Minerva to tame you a bear and you can down most mobs in game solo. Now if I can get to max level in a month of playing we need to make it harder in my opinion.

    Now two people should not be able to do trolls, ever. Those types of mobs should be for groups.

    Now single player mode should be a whole different animal. Yes you should be able to solo everything. Do they need to make two versions of the game. Yes I think so at least when it comes to monster difficulty. In friends mode the monsters should change difficulty on how many players there are. Why because single mode and friends should be easier than the mmo.

    Anyways that is my 2 cents. Keep in mind at one point most people that enjoy the game and play often will be maxed out pretty quick and this level gate thing will only be for new players. At that point we will be able to make the best armors and weapons to equip our noobs to help them level quickly. Now that the game is harder is when I am beginning to enjoy it. I have never played this much since release. I look forward to getting in groups to tackle the harder mobs.
     
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  17. redfish

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    @Violation,

    Your last post is exactly what I was talking about in the thread I put up. The problem isn't that you can't see enemy levels -- its that level matters too much. It should be about the monsters size, gear, skills, etc. versus your size, gear, skills. If subtypes have some purpose in the game lore, I think they're okay, but, otherwise, I shouldn't have to find the right level wolf to fight or spider to fight or elf to fight.

    The blackbox problem where you have to guess how dangerous the monster is you're fighting is because they're too much of a deal with levels. Its why they're going for the "skull and crossbones" solution to rate scenes, which I think is the wrong way to go. I don't like the "level rail" where you're always geared to fight things you're matched for.

    To the others, of course, big or tough monsters like trolls and dragons are going to have more size, gear, skills, or whatever else that should make it difficult for solo players. "Impossible" for solo players rules out designs that allow for cleverness.
     
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  18. Violation Clauth

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    Good man... I didn't think this would be necessary but I see now I should have done it.
    I agree completely. The look should be everything not a number.

    She keeps offering and I keep declining. Everyone has a bear because without them you can't enjoy ranged solo at low levels... That's not fair.

    I think that it's great you're trying to help me but your help misses the feedback.

    I have the best possible crafted gear with all critical on each piece. I have the best in slot weapons. I have a thorough understanding of the combat system. I have the first video teaching people about spell weaving so the deck system is well in my blood also. My issue remains. I feel like the solo game play was not only near impossible but it took a lot of prior or external information.

    I understand there is a lot of missing content so this feedback is aimed at making sure they don't just copy paste information that we have to create that content. It's also to let others know they're not alone.

    I appreciate your streaming and your bannering of the things you like. We need more people doing that!

    I will read into your indirect answer and see you as the first person to tell me you think the single player game is good as is. That's really good news that they've made it to the point where some people are satisfied with the product in its current state to the point they can release it. I'm sure you can tell by this thread I'm not alone in my opinion.

    Best of luck on your streaming adventures.
     
  19. leilakin

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    @Violation you say I indirectly answered, but I blatantly stated, in direct answer to your question, that I have been having a blast in single player play. Not sure how much more clear you want me to be. Also, I was not trying to help you. I was discussing your points and talking about how I experience them in the game.
    I get it. I get that you started the original post of this thread with, "this game sucks," and you want everyone to agree.
    Well, we don't.
     
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  20. Striker

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    Same here. I hope it stays a viable build. I want to be out there killing monsters....in my KILT

    ;)
     
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