I lost 1/4th of my GM's from one death!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by King Robert, Feb 25, 2018.

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  1. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    But the lead dev will still be saying he knows best, with that ever-present smirk on his face.
     
  2. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    There are plenty of easy-mode, entitlement games out there....
     
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  3. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    That's getting old mate.
    Just don't die.
    It really isn't that hard. I didn't die since R40 or so.
    I am sure you can do it too.
     
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  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Yea, but we actually adventure in this adventure game.
    And that response is "getting old mate"....
     
  5. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    I am doing too.
    Do i really have to make a l2p post out of that?
    Because THAT would be really getting old.
     
  6. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Of course you are.
    lol
     
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  7. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    :rolleyes::D
     
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  8. StrangerDiamond

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    We're getting old you guys :rolleyes:

    My point is that maybe for a short wow-while fleeting moment death was more meaningful because it had a skill penalty... but it lost all meaning when it became purchasable, in any type of role-playing game that is against the ethos.

    It's conceptually wrong, old or not :)

    I don't mind dying, I don't mind losing xp, I don't even mind losing all my gear, you can't imagine the number of times I started over in UO, its insane, but I had fun every time and took a different role and persona.

    That is not my point... the point is that its a disincentive to adventuring, while it should only discourage powergaming.

    If I want to adventure somewhere risky, I can chose to equip sub par armor and not mind if I can make it to the last level of the dungeon I had fun... but I didn't lose progress.

    I'm still me I just lost STUFF.

    You see the difference ?
     
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  9. Barugon

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    Which makes it no-risk.
     
  10. Womby

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    It doesn't matter. A month from now we are all going to be killed by that Big Red Rock. Killed I say! The BRR is Divine Punishment for straying from the true path of virtue. Rather than focus on the faults of others, we should examine our own imperfections, for it is we who have brought this calamity upon ourselves! It is not too late to adopt a kitten, feed a stray dog, help your neighbour and stand up for the oppressed. Free a Faun. Make friends with a Kobold. Commiserate with a ghost or skellie. Give to the poor. Kill a slime (hey, those things suck, amirite?).

    The end may be near, but the future is in your hands.
     
  11. Barugon

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    I wonder how many times I'll die when those creatures falling from the sky (disguised as meteors) reanimate and wreak havoc?!
     
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  12. TheBalance

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    This is the main problem with this system. Not everyone has, or desires, to experience the loss of progress in a game, ESPECIALLY casual players that just want a consequence-free environment to explore - these are the majority of MMORPG players. Instead, we've got a decay mechanic they REFUSE to budge on, which literally only caters to the hard-core crowd that also has lots of time to play, or the desire to min/max farming efficiency with the time they do have to play.

    A casual player losing potentially weeks of their progress from a death, especially due to a poorly explained (and often grossly misrepresented by people who don't actually know) mechanic, is going to make them ragequit - if they continue playing once they find out about this mechanic at all.

    I'm fine for risk vs. reward, but most gamers aren't. Very few MMORPG's feature actual progression loss, ever. There's a reason for that, not many are fond of it.

    Regardless of how you stand, this mechanic needs to be explained clearly and concisely. It needs to be made available so people who experience it aren't blindsided thanks to lack of/mis-information.

    The only purpose this current system will fulfill is reducing the player count. Unfortunately, we've been saying this for years now. If it's staying in, at least explain it right and put it somewhere people can see it.

    Oh well. One month till launch.
     
  13. Fazza

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    Aren't most people missing the point here?

    If you reach the point where you loose more XP from the pool than you can put in though play, then you've reached the game's skill soft-cap for you and you need to reassign skill points to make you as effective as you can be.
    It was never promised that everyone would be able to reach lvl200 in each skill or that you'd be able to easily be competitive alongside the top players. The system just gives you the flexibility to be whatever you want but not without hard limits.

    As you know, the other option would be to go with the UO max-GMs method and prevent skills going any higher after you've assigned your limit. It will mean that you have a world filled with identically specced and leveled chars and you'd have to level alts to specialize in other aspects of the game, but it will be fairer. This isn't the game that was wanted en-mass. I'm also genuinely not sure we have enough things to do to keep people playing after the limits have been hit yet.
    Life isn't fair and the game shouldn't be to a certain degree. Its a fine balancing act to give the real power players a sense of achievement and advantage (as they should have) but without making them totally and utterly game-breakingly OP. The death loss helps a lot with this. Unless you limit max skills is there really any better method?

    If you've finished all the quests, and unless you're into the pure socializing aspect of the game, the grind IS the game, love it or loathe it.

    Someone suggested that decay should be calculated in your actual in-game play time rather than just time elapsed if you playing or not. That really is a great idea (I thought it already was like that :-/ ), perhaps you could even make the max decay even greater. Again helping to set the soft-cap and really forcing people to understand that their softcap is their own personal limit on where they can take their avatar. Obviously though, this would be very hard to swallow by the hardcore players who have thrown their own lives into the game and amassed vast amounts of skill points though hard work and dedication.
    A fantastic idea, I believe, would be to give EVERYONE 1-2 hours playtime a day without ANY decay building up at all (think of it like the power hour in UO for skill gain but for decay). That way the casual players will benefit and feel like they're not being punished for enjoying the game in small amounts, and those playing 15 hours a day do. - Note- Avatars would still retain the level of decay that may have been built up in the previous session's play.

    The other big problem I see is just the lack of things you can do as a power player, or anyone for that matter, to join the grind. Perhaps the death decay would be more palatable for everyone if there was more ways to gain BIG experience per hour either on your own or in a group. Sitting there for a couple of hours a day in the monkey room doing wave after wave of monkeys or running the loop around deep ravenswood is just not fun when its your only option for making upto a million skillpoints an hour. We should have other instanced dungeons (fishing treasure maps anyone?) that reward the player with equal skillpoints and are accessible to more people.
    That way, a power playing, min-maxer would be a welcome addition to your party and would mean they'd be more likely to join you instead of having to grind the usual areas in the game and terrified of death.

    I'd like to see party play rewarded more on the XP front to allow this, but then again, how do you do that without allowing people to abuse XP gain on alt chars sitting outside the monkey room door?
    Its an impossible quandary to address really in order to please everyone.


    I believe it may not be the skill decay that's the problem at all, but more the balance and delivery of XP into player's pools.
    Do I spend hours doing the quest lines the devs have worked hard to make for 100k EXP at the end of each questline when you can make that in 10 mins in the monkey room?
    Do I spend hours doing auxiliary quests for 5000XP a pop, when you can make that in 60 seconds killing a wave of enemy in deep ravenswood?
    Do I go on a fun dragon killing session with my guild for VIRTUALLY ZERO XP, risking an insta-death with a tiny chance of a decent loot drop, or do I spend that time on my own in friends mode in the monkey room for 2 hours gaining another 1+ million XP?

    If the delivery was more balanced, the lack of game play variety wouldn't be so tedious for the power players. Again, they'd likely be more social and party-focused rather than grinding away in the safe confines of the monkey room with no deaths, ready to get a vital few more million XP for that Sunday's Virtue League.


    Fazza
     
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  14. Cock of the North

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    Maybe add in a Shame Oracle quest.

    So when you die you have to perform some quest (with no risk of death) in order to get back a bunch of the xp you lost. Like a lomg walk of Shame in multiplayer mode through the center of Brittany.

    Obviously this would need to be capped to make sure death still has meaning for higher players.
     
  15. Spoon

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    I think that would also help against the perception for newer players.
     
  16. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Im not sure 40 gms is a new player
     
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  17. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Skills set to unlearn only drop xp when you use skills. Any training or maintaining skill over 40 pulls xp from your pool to avoid loss, and does not pull from unlearned skills
     
  18. Lesni

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    I am a casual player. Level 50 or 60 ish.
    I have ZERO GM's.
    I had 2.8 million XP yesterday and died.
    I lost 800K.
    I play maybe 30 min a day during the week average.
    As a casual player, I hate that all of the time gathering the XP has now been lost.
    The XP is not the issue, it is the number of hours I spent to get them and lose them in 5 min???

    If that is missing the point then I totally missed it.
     
  19. Fazza

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    I'm pretty sure this isn't quite right.
    I've not died since the last patch which increased max decay - however I don't believe I loose anywhere near 800k as a level 91 player for one death.

    Sure it didn't trickle into other skills without you knowing? I'd raise a ticket with your logs...etc if you're certain.
     
  20. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Regardless of personal opinion about death decay, shouldn't we all agree that it's causing displeasure to many players both new and old. Whether it's really affecting the character progression or not, it does psychologically suck the fun out of the game.

    Of course, the dev need to find the balance between the game difficulty and the joy of playing the game. The way it is right now, skill decay is still killing our player retention and introduction.

    From day one, this crowd funded game has communities of players as their staple bread and butter. Increasing more players should always be the top priority above all else.

    My bottom line is that if skill decay consequence is what kill the players motivations to play, then it must be revised until it's not. If the consequence isn't really the case, then we still have an issue with misconception on how it works and that needs to be looked at as well.

    At least until the best way to not die is no longer to not play the game.
     
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