Ideas for balance to bring in a larger player base

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by parallelogram, Jul 12, 2019.

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  1. Mac2

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    Well, maybe not ALL pvp zones. it would be nice to have a few that are a true test of your full potential.
     
  2. Gorthyn

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    Well how about they actually implement this supposed "plan" (along with various others that never see the light of day month after month and year after year) rather than churning out more pointless pixel crack or new half baked features that are at best peripheral to the game experience and the chances it might actually be a success ? Honestly it's ridiculous.
     
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  3. Vladamir Begemot

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    Except it limits it to everyone with skills over 100. They need to acknowledge that players with lower skill levels would like to participate. There's no reason they can't raise the skills.

    I've seen newbies fighting in the Outskirts, they want to PvP. Wouldn't it be nice if they could participate before losing interest in a game that only caters to the upper echelon?

    Simple fix. Fix skills to 100 instead of only capping them.
     
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  4. Mac2

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    Just have some zones 80, some 100, some 120, some unlimited. maybe even a 60.
     
  5. Antrax Artek

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    I still think that soft caps (rather than hard caps) are the best option.
    For example your skills are at level 130 and you want to go to pvp in a level 80 capped zone, all that exceeds the 80 cap is divided at 50% (hypothetical percentage) and your cap there is skills level 105.
    In this way it will remain the diversification of the characters, who may have focused all their experience on a skill rather than raising them all but the level gap would still be significantly reduced.
    Otherwise if someone has all skills level 80 and one to 160 for example as it is following a certain build, will be greatly disadvantaged in a skills level 100 hard capped zone.
     
  6. Time Lord

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    The above are just some note worthy quotes I thought were very constructive in the both pro and con of it all.

    If you don't want to read a bunch of BS, skip down to "The Idea"
    This thread is banquet of fresh ideas with eyes from many angles.
    [​IMG]

    First I'd like to thank @parallelogram for broaching this highly important yet toxic charged and fused subject-matter. I won allot of money in the pvp early days having bet on you to win in the ring. For bringing this subject-matter up, you are a true SOTA Heretic which means we're all in fine company here in this thread, for you all seem to be heretics spewing grand blasphemies. I myself was branded a heretic in both my last release reviews for broaching this subject-matter, but I think this thread attacks the issue from a greater known angle of attack.

    "Ideas for balance to bring in a larger player base"

    Good God I love that subject-matter. It strikes at the very heart of SOTA's biggest problem, "it's the game we wish we could play more, but seems to have a great flaw within it's design which prevents that from happening".

    For those that do not know, my playtime is all about the new player or lower level character play and how we may improve it. Each of my "many characters" were fashioned with beginnings in mind and when they reach 4 skull areas, they are likely doomed into a life of living mothballs rarely played, or just outright deleted never to be seen again. I was once a famed but not so note worthy pvp'ist back in UO, but as age came on, my ever slowing finger speed couldn't beat-up a squirt, but I still have my fondest memories :)

    There's tools within the ideas here in this thread and identifying the tools of change I believe helps liberate further ideas from everyone.

    • I've heard pvp caps mentioned.
    Of the many different ways caps can be applied, I didn't read anyone mention, "a total skill point cap" (not just a cap for individual skills), which I believe helps strange builds blossom. Building Decks for arena pvp comes to mind here because of the need for differing skill attack angles. Pvp teams come to mind here, as any pvp teamwork in such a capped world would have a great advantage if they had a well planned mix within their team.
    • I've heard pvp swapping mentioned.
    @Deep Sea Dobber , that's a unique angle I've never heard before. I think there's allot of things in that idea never considered before. Heaps of Kudos to you for being original and thought provoking.
    • I didn't see anyone post of a "further consent to fight", which is a thought that crossed my mind with little merit, but still thought provoking all the same.
    If a pvp player of a certain amount of greater skill encounters another player of "far" lesser skill (determined by total skill point amount), the lesser skilled pvp flagged player would be given a choice to take the fight or decline. (I don't particularly like this idea at all in many different ways, yet it is "a way" and thus a further tool of creative thought).

    "Without Mention of PvP"... and with what I find when building so many new low level character, I had the following idea for possibly improving new player's SOTA experience last week;

    "The Idea" (I'm glad you skipped down, because that was allot of BS)
    The idea of adding more exp to the new player SOTA experience is nothing new, yet does create a problem when it comes to "skipping over content" in the form of differing hunting areas. We built one hell of allot of low Skull level content areas, which last a player about a blink of their eye's worth in actual playtime. So, increasing motive to pursue other low level hunting grounds becomes the objective of this idea.

    The idea is to encourage the new player to travel our map to a (rotating? or having a personal unfulfilled quest near by?) hunting area where Greater EXP Gains could be found by hunting there instead of where they may "feel at home around" by always hunting in a single spot. It could appear in quest styled script and be identified through name as well as direction of travel through use of a point on the compass and change daily as well as with skill level achieved. I think it would seem less grinding as well as less stagnate to the player, while increasing their knowledge of our map before they learn to lean on the crutch of our fast travel scrolls.

    That's it... I just wanted to give a shout out to how good it feels being in a thread full of heretics, share some views and point out some very fine looking tools I see being talked around here.


    [​IMG]
    :p~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  7. kaeshiva

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    The problem with boosting lower level players is that they'll quickly outlevel all of the game's "content" and end up in the same boat a lot of folks are in - what do I do now?
    Remember that we're already at double the original progression rate, and not only that, with the new starting scenes and new player experience updates, with the help of higher level players, updates to gear, powerful artifacts, etc. the playing field is completely different than it was at launch. Its easier to level now than ever before, and the suggestion is the grind is still too much. Right now a new character after a few days playing has already bypassed loads of tier 1-2-3 scenes, quests, and content. Or a few hours if they have 'help'. Most of the scenes in the game there is no reason to ever visit because by the time you do the outskirts, you've outlevelled most of it.

    The problem with increasing attenuation cap for low level players is that it just helps those that would powerlevel alts - a new player isn't going to attenuate doing the content intended for new players - not even close.

    The problem is once you have stomached as much grind as you can to get strong enough to do the higher stuff...then what do you do? Unless you're a min-max optimizer or want to spend thousands of hours fighting the RNG to gear yourself (or fighting the rng to get artis, or simply grinding absurd amounts of cash to try and buy your way there) ...there's not a lot to do but more of the same. Grind more cash, or more materials, to replace gear or maybe get marginal upgrades by spending dozens/hundreds of hours feeding the RNG slot machine.

    I suggest that what is needed is not 'faster levelling' for lower levels but more avenues of lateral progression that give some small benefit to your character - either via an achievement system or unlockable content that persists with your character. Let there be a difference between someone who actually plays the breadth of the game and someone who got powerlevelled to 100. Consider also developing non-combat activities (after all, if the game is just about kill/grind, people are going to lose interest...). Crafting is an excellent example of something that should have its own progression system and not just be a measure of how much cash you can grind to pour into it. Daily quests are a powerful incentivizer but they must be worth the player's time. Consider incremental progress, reputation systems, a way for players to build on something and progress over time rather than just blitzing past most of the game. There's already stuff in place to do this - different cultures within the game all of which could unlock achievement based progression suitable to their theme, including skills, recipes, passive abilities, titles, unique outfits, furnishings - something for every style of play.

    I wont lie - when they were redoing a Tier 2 or a Tier 3 scene, I'd usually go nosy it for 10 minutes but have never gone back. 90% of the zones in the game are pointless for most players, there is nothing unique or lucrative or needed to do there. Group content is actively discouraged by the loot system - difficult targets dropping nothing most of the time and then being subject to roll quickly causes players to stop bothering.

    The only place that I can see the benefit of scaling/capping is for PvP, where it makes sense,, but everyone disagrees on what that cap should be. And the player that has spent years in the game finds that they essentially must fight at a handicap so that players who haven't spent the time they have "have a chance" - so you lose some either way. Having several possible brackets will ameliorate this somewhat.

    After over 10,000 hours played in the game I find there's little need for me to go grind anything or farm anything at this point. I have enough stuff. Adding achievements for different zones, for different monster types, for exploration - and having those achievement points translate into some sort of lateral progression / benefit for my character - that would get me back online. Adventure and skill level should not be the only goalposts of consequence.
     
  8. Adam Crow

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    I totally agree, and you can listen to whomever you want about this, but i think the beginning stuff is some of the only part of this game that has started to be fleshed out. Skipping someone ahead to the non-existent end game is a very bad idea. I've been sitting in limbo for a while now waiting for something to do.

    I realize now i just have to create my own content for myself at this point. I can wait around for pvp things to be introduced, but ill probably be 10 years older when that happens. And crafting well, I'm holding my breath with the spec stuff being added cause I'm not sure how it will work out. Got my fingers crossed tho, hopefully they have a decent plan.
     
  9. Jackdepirate

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    I played UO for like 10 years in the golden era. I literally grew up on that game, I think I started playing when I was 8 or 9 years old. For me my enjoyment in game was always pvp. I liked working toward being the best against people that had the exact same cap limits as me. I understand Sota is a different game but my problem with sota is that there is no enjoyment in it for me anymore because when I played alpha everyone was near equal, or had the capability of being near equal. Now that's it's been so long since final wipe and I haven't had the time to keep up with everyone I have zero chance of ever being able to be competitive in PvP against top players. I've come back a few times since wipe and burnt myself out grinding for days/weeks/months just to keep up to some degree but I'm still only level 110 or so which is in no way comparable to some of the higher level pvpers which means pvp became less skill based and more play time based.

    I wouldn't like to see a wipe because there are alot of people who have spent alot of time energy and money that would suffer but I wouldn't mind seeing something similar to the trammel split of UO days. Where one server is pvp only and capped, and the other is no pvp at all and unlimited skills.

    Until a change like this is made I can safely say that even though I still love sota, the community, the staff, and my experiences in sota, I will not be playing because I personally have nothing to work toward that I can achieve in a realistic time frame.

    I have a daughter now, and a lot more responsibilities since I first began my adventure in Shroud back in R22 or so and I just can't commit to the time demanded to be among the best.
     
  10. parallelogram

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  11. Mac2

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    LOL.
     
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  12. Feeyo

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    Actually I like this idea, when flagging for PvP your profile swaps to a totally new profile. Having to level your PvP profile from scratch would be so much fun :)
    This way leveling your PvP profile is going to be pretty interesting.

    Give the PvP zones a level cap and force the player to use his/her PvP profile.
     
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  13. Alcedes

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    So, I argued problems with the powergap A LONG time ago. I was concerned about the massive headstart kick starters got. I walked away because I could no longer convince people to come play anymore, because most of the time i didnt want to. The idea was for them to come play with me, but the fact was, I had a 3,000 hour head start on them. Anything fun for me, was impossible for them. Anything fun for them, was trivial to me...and unless I just sat back and watched, i made it trivial with any action i took, and ruined the gaming experience for them. Dealing with that for a few weeks is one thing. But knowing it will be that way for months before they are even reasonably caught up? Ugh..I didnt even want to invite people to play with me anymore.

    At this point, the only solution I see is to collect data regarding the top 15-20% if players, and then award scaling XP bonuses to everyone below that "baseline", with level 1 receiving the largest bonus to their XP totals (Yes, MASSIVE bonuses), and then the opposite side of them, the top 10% or so of players below that top tier, receive the smallest bonuses to their XP earned.

    Honestly, there really isnt any other solution other than to close the gap for new players as rapidly as possible.

    And that doesnt even sound entirely good to me. Lots of consequences.
     
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  14. Vladamir Begemot

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    Bottle up XP and make it tradeable. I was told that you can do this in Eve, it costs you 2x the XP you put in the magic bottle.
     
  15. Terrence Phillip

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    Yes!!!
     
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