Ideas for Crafting Skills Enhancements

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Browncoat Jayson, May 17, 2018.

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  1. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Since there were hints of specialization coming for crafting skills, I'd like to put out some suggestions for this line, as well as improvements to the entire Crafting lineup.

    Gathering Skills:
    Replace the Survey skills with active versions. Using these skills, which can be placed on the non-combat toolbar, will attempt to locate the nearest node of the correct type within a limited range. If a node is detected, text will be added to your chatbox "You see a <node name> to the <closest cardinal direction>." and an icon will be added to your compass and map where the node is. The higher the skill, the further away this function works. This is almost identical to how the crafting radar map works in Lord of the Rings Online, and it is a huge timesaver for gatherers.

    Refining Skills:
    While the Efficient Refine and Swift Refine skills were beneficial for some recipes, they didn't cover many of the recipes that players use most. Therefore, I'd suggest adding additional lines of these skills for other recipe types. (Efficient/Swift Stonework for Smelting, Efficient/Swift etc)

    Add a line of active skills that can be used while performing refining. These are totally optional for use; without them, crafting works exactly as it does currently. However, while refining, use these skills to attempt to affect the outcome of the process. There are three active skills; one to increase the chance of success (base and critical), one to increase the speed of refinement (increase speed, small chance to instantly finish), and one to increase the chance of returning additional materials (small chance to add additional refined item, larger chance to return fuel). Since these will have a cooldown, they might not be usable for every combine when batching, but they should overall provide some benefit to dedicated crafters.

    Production Skills:
    Just like combat specialization, crafting specialization should allow players to have two skills (one set to learn and one to maintain) which provide benefits to all related skills. Specialization allows players to turn ordinary successes into critical successes, showing that they have perfected their craft (and no longer having to worry about non-exceptional items, which are otherwise chaff for high-end crafting). Additionally, the chances for success when masterworking are increased, and the available options are expanded (showing up to two additional masterwork options, say one every 40 skill levels). Specialization in Alchemy likewise provides additional options when Enchanting. (I would very much like to see the specialization be tempting enough not to have everyone always pick Alchemy + one other; should we consider making additional enchanting options appear based on the specialization in the type of item being enchanted, rather than alchemy specialization? Then crafters would have to pick between increased chance at enchanting and additional options in more than one item type.)

    Just like Refining, add a line of active skills to use while performing production. There are three active skills; one to increase the chance of success (base and critical), one to increase the speed of production (increase speed, small chance to instantly finish), and one to increase the chance of returning additional materials (return fuel and/or scrap).

    New Skills:
    Some trees need to be fleshed out. The Cooking tree, for example, only has one skill; and the Alchemy tree is still very limited compared to the others. Therefore, I'd suggest expanding these as follows.
    • Cooking and Alchemy should each gain a Salvage skill, which works just like on the other trees; putting a crafted item (or looted equivalent) on a crafting table and salvaging it will return scrap (food scrap, which can be eaten or broken down to refined bits, or distilled essences like aqua regia, which can be used to make alchemy recipes).
    • Cooking should gain mastery skills, similar to Enchanting, which allows players to craft the higher end tiers of food more economically; I'd split this into Master Chef and Master Brewer skills, allowing more flexibility. These skills are used on crafted food and drink, similar to how Enchanting works, and upon success would consume that food and provide a small stack of imbued equivalents that provide the same benefit as the original. Players with the skill can now take that incredibly expensive Dragon Stew and turn it into 6 "Dragon Stew, Imbued", which will actually make creating those foods worthwhile. Failure on this attempt should turn it into "Dragon Stew, Drained" which cannot be used in imbuing, but otherwise keeps the same stats.
    • Alchemy should gain a second mastery skill, for creating higher-end potions and other consumables; I'd call this Transmutation. Again, this takes consumables, in this case potions and scrolls, and creates imbued versions. This will be an alternative way of creating Imbued potions, but other consumables can also be imbued to increase their effect. Having a "Recall Scroll, Imbued" with a faster casting time would be a great example of this. Again, failing an imbue should drain the item so that it can still be used, but cannot be imbued.
    Alchemy could also do with a lot more recipes that create goods; potions and scrolls are good one-off purchases, but otherwise everything it creates is only useful for creating other items (like socketing gems); how about some Blink Scrolls that transport you somewhere within a scene like using a Chaos Resurrect, or Peer Gems that raise your camera up into the air and point downwards so you can see the lay of the land, or Eversmoking Stones that could be placed in a chimney or campfire to emit smoke FX, or more equipment similar to astrolabes (pocket watches, everburning torches, etc) so players can feel like magic is more than just one-off spells. The new salvage essences would be a great way to introduce new recipes, and give players a reason to collect all those "useless" potions and scrolls from NPCs.

    It would be great to get some extremely high-level required recipes, that allow GM crafters to do things that others can't. Things like craftable patterns with a skill requirement of 110, that are not tradeable until after they are applied to an item, and have unique appearances. I'd really like to see "Maker's Marks" appear visually like that, where high-end craftsmen can apply a pattern that not only has a cool appearance, but shows a special heraldry-like mark. Think of this like Iolo's "I" in nails that appears on his crossbows, or a small metal plate with the manufacturer's information. It should be possible to reuse the heraldry engine for this, even restricting it further to something like 75x75 px.
     
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  2. Rowell

    Rowell Avatar

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    Please do not replace the current visual cues for Survey (finding raw materials) with a textual cue. I would rather see the item on the screen, rather than reading some popup text telling me where to go circa Zork 1980. ("You detect a cotton bush 10 meters to the North." No thank you.)
     
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  3. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Thats not what I said. The current visual cues (pulsing highlight) do not seem to be tied to Survey, just the node type. The old cues (sparkles when near) were. I'm not asking for the visual cue to be removed, but for the skill to actually have use. Right now, its only a gate for the next skill in the tree and has no effect on play.
     
  4. Elrond

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    But crafting is not combat . Crafting is a huge part of the game ..why would you want to hand it over to ALT ACCOUNTS ? If this is implemented the results will be the following :

    1. Account for Refiner ( Already happening)
    2.Account for Blacksmith (incoming)
    3.Account for Tailor (incoming)
    4.Account for Carpenter (incoming)
    5.Account for Alchemist/Enchanter .(incoming)

    The result - In few months people will still be able to craft everything only they will do it on multiple accounts .

    So why would you want to turn this game into ALTERAMA ? Many People already have 10-50 accounts or more.

    Do You want a game where the crafting economy is driven by accounts who just sit on a table all day long and craft potions and wolf heads just to get more xp ? Or an economy that encourages and rewards active people who go out into the world and face its dangers ?

    The damage has already been done when the craft xp from sitting on a table got more rewarding then if going out into the world and fighting for your hard earned craft xp. Its just a matter of time and money before crafting alts will take over the crafting economy ....by limiting Crafters to a single tree /profession youll just speed up the ALT TAKEOVER . Future you will probably be wearing gear made by someone named John The Blacksmith or Ana the Tailor. Need something made ? Give me two minutes to log No1 Enchanter .

    I really hope devs read these lines and dont allow crafting to turn into what i posted.
     
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  5. Elrond

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    This i agree with . Crafting system should encourage players to go as high as they can in a single tree, thats how you encourage people not to spread in every crafting area , everyone does it now because they know theres really not much out there beyond LVL 100 ...this can be done by adding more stuff at higher levels - 120-130-140-150-160 so on.... thats where crafting spec should come in also not adding another tree to tell you that you are specialised in that area but by adding those bonuses in the main trees that you level beyond 100.

    If you have lvl 110 swords masterworks you should be able to do more then someone who only has lvl 100 and less then someone who has level 120 ... and by that i dont man the 0.1 smokescreen i mean MORE.
     
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  6. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    The whole concept of specialization is that any one character should not be able to "do everything". Therefore, specialization allows some characters to do certain things very well (possibly at a detriment to other skills), making interaction between two players have benefit.

    Frankly, I could care less about alt accounts. One, because if players want to have multiple characters with different specializations, more power to them. And two, those alt accounts are additional funding for the game. Why would I prevent that?

    More to the point, what is the benefit (to the game, not a single player) from having one character able to do everything?
     
  7. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    ... if its about selling more accounts so the game can gather more funds ...there are other ways...
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  8. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Not the point; they already said specialization is coming, so I was noting what I hoped was included. That includes specialization that matters, thus limited per character. But since you arn't contributing, I won't continue to derail.
     
  9. Elrond

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    Just because its coming doesnt mean it has to be the way you want it ...why should it limited per character ? And why are you so eager to see it limited ? You have an army of alts ready for the takeover ? I dont hence i dont want it to be limited and i dont want to be '' forced to make alts''... i like crafting and i like doing it on my main account not on an army of alts. So i get the agenda youre pushing , not a fan and i hope the devs dont go this ALTERAMA route for crafting.
     
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  10. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Then don't specialize. Thats your choice. Its just like any specialization; it adds options, but isn't required.
     
  11. Trihugger

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    Honestly crafting is fairly experience prohibitive relative to time (ie many many many many many many many etc. hours in a mine to build up a pool to do anything) that anyone trying to altarama would be worse than finding people actually specializing. Now the caveat would have to be that the specializations are meaningful in the post 80 world, unlike the current setup where there's almost no difference between 100 and 120, in general, as far as crafting/gathering is concerned.

    Realistically "production-related specialization" needs to dramatically increase exceptional chance, add a new tier of exceptional chance, dramatically increase the MW/Enchantment success rate of 3+ tries, or add some "better" MW/Enchantment options (either new ones or reduced durability costs for current ones)/specialization gated recipes. They need to be this powerful to be worth it and to make it an actual choice between the production trees (Idk how you make cooking competitive with Enchanting/Armor + Weapon Crafting/MW'ing, that one's a wash to me).

    Gathering is probably the most straight-forward. You do one of two things: You create nodes/resources that are only obtainable by those that have specialized in that department or you dramatically increase the yield/time ratio.

    Honestly crafting specialization is the only way we're going to see actual "dedicated XXX crafter" because the difference between a 120 Blacksmith, for instance, and a 130 blacksmith is damn near nothing except the 130 has spent a crapton more experience to get his "+0.1" advantage.
     
  12. Elrond

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    That used to be the case , not anymore ... you can pull MORE XP JUST CRAFTING AT A TABLE THEN GATHERING ...during next 2x craft xp people will be pulling 100k- 200k-300k craft xp /hour (depending on their wallet ) just sitting at a table and crafting stuff ..if they do that 10 hours /day for 14 days they will net between 28 mil to 42 mil if they do it on multiple accounts then what i posted earlier about the alt takeover will happen.

    How many craft skills can you GM with 42 mil craft xp ? ALL OF THEM and have more then half xp left... on just 1 account ..do that with 3 or 4 accounts and youll be at top of crafting arena in just 2 weeks with few alts.

    ... Getting more xp at craft table then you do gathering is a bad idea ... multibots will have a field day with this one... and for those who say they dont care about people using multi acc to play the economy ...consider the iron and copper ore market that was drove into the ground by multibots that got banned last month by Chris . (Remember those guys selling hundred of thousands of ore and hundred of thousand of TIN ? Theyre gone ..for now) The silver and gold ore immediatly jumped from 42-45 /ore to 55 and now stabilising around 50 ....the ore iron and copper still ample supplies left from bots in the game so price still in the ground 30-39/ore..once that supply is gone market will prolly go up to 45 for these also. With that being said ... turning over the crafting economy to alt accounts is another bad move ...
    Give us specialization if you must but do it the right way ..do not limit and encourage people to go deeper in the leveling trees. If you wanna craft everything do it but youll never be as good as someone who is 10-20 levels higher then you..that is how it should be..
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  13. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    That has not been my experience at all, even today. You only get decent xp for the first few items of a given recipe that you craft, and that rapidly declines to sub-100xp per combine. You'll get the occasional exceptional that gives you a bump, but certainly nothing close to what you get gathering in a T5 scene.

    What items are you seeing that give a ton of crafting xp at a table? (I won't even go into your example; anyone who can sit at a crafting table for 10 hours a day is already certified insane and has been collecting resources for months to even attempt it)
     
  14. Elrond

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    What XP do you get gathering in a T5 scene ? How much craft xp /hour and where ? Define ton of craft xp ? Might mean different things to different people .. 10k/hour ? 20k? 30k?40k? 50k?60k?
    Its not a one single item that gives decent craft xp ..you need to find best combination you can afford ...time spent crafting + gold cost for mats + resulted item profitability ... if sold to NPC prolly 50% gold losses ..if sold to players probably profit or sold at even because you will have lots.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  15. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    500xp per node (tree, ore, skinning; less for gems and agriculture plants) in any T5. Again, you didn't answer the question. What are you crafting that you can get more xp using a table than you can gathering, since after making a dozen or more of a single recipe gets you well below 100xp per combine? How many resources is that going to require to be gathered in advance to make any reasonable amount of xp (and compare that to the amount you get for gathering those resources)?
     
  16. Trihugger

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    I remember the last time I actually was going super try-hard in the new Elysium Mines (I could have as many "move-speed" buffs up as I could manage at this time) I was getting anywhere from 85-95k an hour depending on if I waited for Meticulous or not.

    I have to say I'm inclined to believe there's no sustainable method to gain experience at the crafting table alone. I know I definitely can't afford it. I am aware, though, that if you happen to have a ton of dragon meat to cook that you will gain the most crafting experience/hour doing that but holy god is it BORING. I do see how someone could potentially use that for alts, especially if the current system where post 100 skill really doesn't mean squat is kept.
     
  17. Baratan

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    I don't want crafting to be designed in such a way that alts are required or given an extreme advantage. I'd also like to decrease interdependency between different crafts as well.
     
  18. Cherico

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    Ressource-Node-Radar?!?
    No ... Ressources are always on the same spots, so with the time you know were to find ;)

    And salvaging food?!? Really?!?
    I don't want to eat something that's cooked from "food scrap" :D :D :D
     
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