1. We have a QA initiative where we work with the community more closely than ever to get your bug reports into the hands of the developers. Please use this forum for LIVE Server bug reporting. Do follow the format below, because it will help us out greatly in responding. If you do not, it's possible your bug report will be misinterpreted, or worse, lost!

    Read BEFORE submitting your first bug: Reporting Bugsā€¦ QA 101 Document
    • Search for your bug before posting in order to avoid duplicate reports.
    • Only reply to an existing thread if you have additional information for the reported bug. ALL extraneous commentary will be deleted to avoid cluttering the reports.
    • Keep your bug report short and factual.
    • There is no need to submit crash logs. Crash data we require is automatically logged.
    Bug Report Template
    1. Title:
    2. Reproduction Rate:
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details:
    5. Steps to Reproduce:
    6. User Specs:
    To get started, use /bug in-game (/devbug if on QA) to auto-create this template. It will even auto-fill some of the required information and open the browser for you. Then take the information that was just saved to your system's clipboard and paste it into a new QA forum post. Thank you bug hunters!
Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Libraries and item limit

Discussion in 'Release 34 Feedback Forum' started by Themo Lock, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    8,008
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I spent a lot of time at one point collecting all the in game books but they sit in a bag now.

    I really dont think we are going to see deco increases for some time.

    I recently moved into a metro pot with a high population while I try to sell my PoT. I was used to loading the zone in seconds and not having issues. Now when I go into the metro PoT, it can take my computer several minutes to load lots or open doors after I first enter. This PoT is only probably half full and its pretty bad and you pretty much arnt going to find a computer system higher spec then mine right now (its in my signature).

    Imagine this PoT if 50 people placed 250 books on each lot.

    They still need to do a lot of work on performance although I dont think that will help much. There just comes a time when your computer, internet, GPU, CPU has to load 50,000 decos in an area and its just going to take a long time period.
     
    MrBlight likes this.
  2. Scottie

    Scottie SotA Dev SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    5,347
    Trophy Points:
    100
    "Worth" is as much of a state of opinion as it is any real representation of value, even in the real world, but ESPECIALLY in games such as ours...

    Do you mean the "Ornate Versions" we offer in our store?

    Just because it's offered for sale, and people choose to buy it, doesn't mean it's inherently more "worthy" than items that are crafted. I happen to enjoy the more rustic look of crafted items in our game (for the most part) better than those that are super fancy merely for the sake of ostentatious style... I'm a "rustic" type of person at heart, and I know I'm not the only one...

    Are you basing "worth" on in-game stats and power?

    We don't sell ornate versions as "pay to win" items, and our ornate Store Items tend to be fancier-looking merely for the sake of visual quality alone. Sometimes we will cease offering them, so those that focus on collection tend to place "worth" upon them, I suppose... But for everyone else, who wants to use these items in the game as their equipment, items purchased in the store are far less "worthy" than their crafted versions ever will be...

    Breaking it down makes that very apparent.
    Store Items Benefits (ornate items):
    • Look Fancier (but provide their eternal pattern if they are ever salvaged, which can be forever applied to crafted items of the same category)
    • Do not require repair (but due to the recent decrease in usage wear on crafted or dropped items, this value has been largely minimalized)
    • Are collectible (but only if there is a value placed on that particular visual style if we ever stop selling it)
    Crafted Item Benefits:
    • Can have patterns applied to them so that they can look just like Store Items (including the eternal patterns of Store-bought Items, which never go away)
    • Made of individual components to allow various bonuses based on player choice (which Store Items are not)
    • Can be Master-Worked to allow additional various bonuses based on player choice (which cannot be done to Store Items)
    • Can be Enchanted to allow even more various bonuses based on player choice (which cannot be done to Store Items)
    • Are ultimately more collectible since they have the capacity to be made in limited runs (by choice of the crafter), and have more specific powers and bonuses which make them far more powerful than Store Items can ever become (which only have the stats of that basic item category)
    Literally the only benefit Store Items currently have over Crafted Items, in the long run, is the fact that they never require repair. But even that factor is now far less meaningful due to the recent changes we made to the rate at which crafted and dropped items degrade through use (changes we made as a response to those who hate having to repair items)... Our rate of wear is now much less compared to that rate in other games of this style, and is a small price to pay to have access to items that can be potentially FAR more powerful than Store Items ever could be. We now have folks who are critical of the current rate of needed repair on BOTH sides of the fence (those who think it's too slow, and those who think it's too fast), which is a good place to be, because that means we have achieved a fairly acceptable balance... This is debated, of course,...but that's the whole point...

    Hopefully this helps clear up some of the misconceptions about Crafted Items being "nearly worthless" compared to Store Items... It's simply not an accurate assessment.

    Scottie ^_^
     
    Numa, Womby, Cordelayne and 3 others like this.
  3. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

    Messages:
    18,208
    Likes Received:
    35,522
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Totally agree.

    This thread was originally about library limits. Has anything changed since last year? Are you guys moving towards a solution? It sure seems like making a few different kinds of bookcases would fix this:

    One that looks empty.
    One that looks 1/4 full.
    One that looks 1/2 full.
    One that looks 3/4 full.
    One that looks Full.

    Then as books are placed into this container, you guys just switch out whichever bookshelf most accurately fits.
     
    Cordelayne, Scottie and LoneStranger like this.
  4. Lord Andernut

    Lord Andernut Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    3,308
    Likes Received:
    11,000
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New Britannian Market
    One might say that the fact most ornate items in the store have an in-game craftable counterpart makes those ornate items less worth buying.

    I'm glad they make the crafted items. There's a huge in-game repertoire of furniture, foods, lighting, etc. and yes, some of them have very large difference (like the ornate greenhouse vs the crafted one), but players still choose both.

    The value of crafted items tends to drop only because there is a limitless supply of them given some time and market saturation.
     
    LoneStranger likes this.
  5. LoneStranger

    LoneStranger Avatar

    Messages:
    3,047
    Likes Received:
    4,776
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Petaluma, CA
    Hi Scottie,

    Thanks for the response. My statement was an observation that most items that are created get a version that has a fancier, upgraded look, often Ornate. It makes sense, because often it doesn't take much extra work to create more versions.

    Crafted weapons and consumables will sell, I do understand that and they have advantages, as you said.

    What was in the forefront of my mind, and what I was basing my definition of worth on, was the ability to sell crafted decoration versions of items on a vendor. I should have been more clear, as you are correct; there are many ways to interpret worth for each type of item and even individual items. The opinion of what looks good vary on the person and the situation and what they are trying to represent.

    Crafted decorations don't really sell all that much, in my experience. Carpentry (and Smelting) decoration items are either 1) low-level and easy to make so people just make their own, or 2) not as "nice looking" (however you define it) as the store items. It's good for Port, because that means people are contributing through the Add-on store (or gold sink via deco merchants), but it's not so great for a carpenter who was hoping to sell decorations. I pretty much gave up because I'm not in a location that gets a ton of foot traffic and there are plenty of other players willing to sell under cost.

    My initial comment was regarding shelves. Shelving is one thing that I thought would move decently. Almost all people running libraries and bookstores, or even private studies, need them. The craftable one looks like a few boards slapped together, whereas the Deco Merchant version is a nice bookcase. Most will go for the nice one. Furniture, tables, mailboxes, signs, pavers, etc.... maybe it's selective memory, but I see POT and lot owners tend to favor the non-crafted, fancier items. They are probably also a status symbol on some levels.

    (Part of the issue could be that there is no variation of quality for a particular crafted decoration item. A master carpenter makes an item that looks the same as someone who started carpentry that day.)

    So while I understand that crafted decoration items may have worth in some sense, they aren't a way to reliably make money. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers, but I understand why the comment may have done so.
     
    Numa, Tahru and Scottie like this.
  6. Scottie

    Scottie SotA Dev SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    5,347
    Trophy Points:
    100
    That is still totally what's on the table, but the tech side of it requires more time before they can get to it and truly define what works and what doesn't before the art gets made... Believe me when I say,...I'm REALLY wanting to see a well-devised working conclusion for this, so that so many folks (and world-builders) out there can happily build all the libraries and dens they want, without worry of the sadness that happens now with item limits, loading time, frame-rate, and all of that hoo-haw... I crave a good solution...

    Scottie ^_^
     
    Numa, curt, Cordelayne and 2 others like this.
  7. Mykll

    Mykll Avatar

    Messages:
    672
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Davidian Bunker
    I'm confused. Which most of the times isn't hard to do. With this talking about bookshelves and books, and the advantage that the store has is that the never need repair, and that crafted items will be turned down to be damaged less through use... A book shelf would need continuous repair over time by "using" it?
     
    Scottie likes this.
  8. Scottie

    Scottie SotA Dev SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    5,347
    Trophy Points:
    100
    Ahhh, I see... You were primarily concerned with decorations and furnishings... Please forgive... I totally agree with you that it would be fantastic to have more varieties of any particular craftable piece of furniture or decoration... Whenever possible I advocate for that, but we seldom have time to create additional versions... At least, when I'm making the craftable version of a thing, I attempt to create something that is interesting and unique, compared to the ones you can buy, so that one feels justified in being proud of an in-game creation (as rustic as it may be compared to the "ornate" versions we must sell to maintain a degree of sustainable profitability)... But you are correct, being able to purchase "the coolest-looking" ones is unfortunately the model we use because, as you said, it caters to those seeking status symbols of opulence. But if we can get to a point where we no longer have to depend so heavily upon store sales, then I know the intent is to broaden the range of things that can be crafted, so that there's not just one type of most category of items... It would be especially nice if those additional craftable items could have patterns that reflect the cultural style of the area of our world in which they were made...

    Scottie ^_^
     
  9. Scottie

    Scottie SotA Dev SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    5,347
    Trophy Points:
    100
    Forgive me, that was my bad... I was mistaking an earlier comment as pertaining to the "worth" of crafted items in general, including character equipment... I'll have to ask our designers if there's a plan for creating more worth for craftable decoration in-game, as opposed to those you can buy (depending on how one defines "worth"), but in the end, it all needs to feed into the understanding that if we make all craftable items far more desirable than ones you can buy in the store, then there's really no reason to have a store, since no-one would want to buy the less-worthy items there, and they'd just craft them all day... Perhaps, in the end, we should just sell the patterns only?

    Food for thought, certainly...

    Scottie ^_^
     
    Rentier, Tahru, Mykll and 2 others like this.
  10. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Avatar

    Messages:
    2,886
    Likes Received:
    9,563
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    This post made my Thursday Scottie! As one of those individuals that wants to build a beautiful library I am very excited by the prospect of whats to come. I asked this question to Chris and Starr two telethons ago and I know you guys are working on it. Plus "bookshelf containers" would cut down on loading time and frame rate which is also a bonus to looking awesome! :D
     
    Rentier, Tahru and Scottie like this.
  11. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

    Messages:
    4,441
    Likes Received:
    11,439
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dragomir Mori
    @Scottie Love your passion. It really shows in your creations, your humility and your drive to do the best you can in understanding the feedback. Rock on!!!
     
    Scottie, LoneStranger and Cordelayne like this.