Loot

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jayfire, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    This part I have actually suggested something that would help a lot, in the same direction as you, but a step further. Crafters do like their experience, but something that crafters could actually enjoy even more is a way to render crafting less of a hassle. Here is what I had suggested :

    Crafter Quests : A quest given to a player requiring him to deliver a certain quantity of crafted pieces of gear, with specific requirements, with rewards ranging from materials to a chance of receiving a Crafting Artifact (or the components/essences to CRAFT Crafter Gear).

    How it works : A quest is given to the player, something along the lines of : "Bring me 5 Bronze 2 handed swords +10 with Thrust Power masterwork on them." This way, there is a specific the crafters need to reach :
    - The sword is a 2 handed sword
    - It needs to be made of a bronze blade
    - It needs Thrust Damage masterwork
    - It needs to be +10, but the other enchantments and masterworks are up to the crafter.

    By bringing these, the crafter can receive base ressources, refined materials, components (even T3 Components like savage handles etc,), or "essences" that he could then turn into a gear piece, lets look at what the gear piece could look like :
    10 Blacksmith essences : 10% faster Blacksmithing/Smelting time
    40 Blacksmith essences : 15% faster Blacksmithing/Smelting time
    160 Blacksmith essences : 20% faster Blacksmithing/Smelting time
    320 Blacksmith essences : 25% faster Blacksmithing/Smelting time

    We could have this for multiple types of gear, and multiple crafting trees, and multiple details like this.

    Now the question is, how does this help loot? Well what will lady Crafty McGee do with all these bronze swords? She clearly doesn't need them for herself! So she gave them to a few soldiers, who went out to hunt, got themselves killed, and those damned elves took the swords with them! Now Jayfire, doing his good deed of the day to thin the ranks of the elves all around the crag foothills, comes across one of these damned elves, and loots a +10 Bronze 2handed sword with +Thrust damage and a couple other enchantments/masterworks, and depending on the crafter's mark, has maybe better bonuses than his own blade! Jayfire now feels like he slayed one mighty elf, for he was walking around with an epic blade!

    This is my solution for crafting. I think that by pairing up both of my ideas, loot could be very good, crafting could be very good, and I actually have issues finding someone who would be upset about these 2 systems being added to the game, but obviously I can't think and speak for everyone, and some might not enjoy it as much, but I think this solves the issues of 2 groups in this game (and PvPers could also benefit of the essences suggestion if pvp specific enchants and masterworks were added in a similar way).
     
  2. Greyfox

    Greyfox Avatar

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    Everquest has a perfect loot system. A 21+ year old archaic MMO with very poor quality graphics and game mechanics has a thriving active community due primarily to it's addictive loot system. What is so hard to understand?
     
  3. AzazelReborn

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    Insite into Loot.
    This game is not like traditional MMO most new player are used too, when it comes to loot.
    • In Diablo 3 you do a Rift and defeat a boss at the end and you get a some loot that will work with your character at the level of that Rift. Every one in your group gets their own loot and money is shared and its guaranteed each time.
    • In World of Warcraft you do a Dungeon/Raid at the end of it the group are guaranteed a loot item or a set item for your specific class or build and money is shared equally.
    • In Guilds War 3 has same feature as World of Warcraft.
    And so on for other similar MMOs. However in Shroud it is quite different to those traditional MMOs, in Shroud if you are group what ever drop is shared to the group depending on the loot setting the leader has set. If you killed 1 mob and it dropped 5 item, those items are shared between the group no matter what it is. Apart from quest items. The person that loot the corpse gets the quest item.

    In Shroud if the mob is some kind of animal you need to skin, the person that skins it gets all the loot and the money is shared between the group.

    This is why people feel that there is not an incentive for grouping in Shroud when it comes to loot due to the way everything is shared. Whereas in traditional MMOs if you kill 3 mobs as a group each corpse is assigned to each member. For an example if there are 5 people in a group and we kill 3 mobs, the first mob loot belongs to player1 and 2nd belongs to player2 and so on. This way loot feels distributed evenly but money is always shared.

    With Shroud that smarter you are with your skills, i.e. placing your experience point in the right skill, the easier it is for you to kill thing and therefore the better the loot you will get in return. If you struggle to kill a mob or it takes you a long amount of time to kill something when you loot that kill you will feel disappointed because what you will get back will not be worth the amount of time/effort it took you to kill the mob. This could add to the reason why majority of the player base feels loot is very bad.
    When you are smart with your skills and deck loots comes to you quickly and you accumulate more per hour due to your build. That does not mean loot is better, it just means you can acquire it quicker and feel less annoyed with it.
    You also need your gear to fit your build and have the correct stats in your gear. This can be a big issue for new player and mid level player because they cannot craft what they need yet and but gear in this game is very expensive. Just go to the many market town and see or your self.

    For a player to feel that they have reach a point of getting good gear few things needs to happen first :-
    • Settle on a build and pump your experience in that focused build.
    • Create and learn your deck. This is so important that when you neglect this even a high level player will struggle with most thing if your deck is not correct.
    • Gear your equipment to complement your build and never forget your buffs.
      • Food, Potions, Devotionals, World buffs. Obsidian Potions.
      • Your skill buff whether your heavy or light armor.
      • STR/DEX/INT buff depending on your build. Also read Tactic/Focus/Subterfuge tree for buff and skill to invest in. (Be every careful these are very important and invest your experience points wisely)
      • Magic Tree: There are buffs your can take that can help you out during your adventure read them know what they do. Some offer heal overtime, every tree has something useful for your even if you are melee.
    Once you have those sorted you will start to accumulate more gold and then you can start to use the gold you have acquire to get better gear to speed things up. Keep repeating this and you will slowly start to manage your time better in the game and knowing where to hunt and what to aim for.

    In Shroud I personally feel that loot, no mater where you get it from Boss fight or just a random humanoid is far too bloated with crafting ingredients to give an illusion of "good". There is not that "wow I found an amazing item" factor from a loot, apart from when you get that special Artifact that you have been searching for. Like when I looted my first Vexlyns Ember of Conflagration (That was the most joyful moment of my entire Shroud life) because I have been hunting that item for over 8 months.

    I have put together a few screen shots of what many players go after and I want you to imagine if the crafting materials were to be removed Gem/Jewel/Ore and Ingots from the loot. I did this solo, now imagine when these are shared amongst a group of beginners or mid range player wanting some kind of adventure.
    Doing this solo gets you good amount of gold, I have not calculated the reagents cost I used in all of them. I was lucky with some of the loot. I am not sure if an average player with my build can do this one after the other and still feel that they are getting "good" loot.

    Here are the screen shots :-
    Pit Dragon
    Extremely hard Boss for Mages (even harder for Fire), if you take out the crafting materials. You get good gold. Scales, bunch of potions. Same Meticulous Experience as Elysium/Crag Mine (Should be more)
    [​IMG]

    Tharsis Vrul
    I was very luck with this Boss, dropped exactly what I wanted. Again if you take out crafting materials, you only get gold and bunch of potions.
    [​IMG]

    Greater Daemons
    Good gold, +2 or more weapon drop for salvaging. bunch of potions
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Yellow Dragon
    Good gold. Scales and bunch of potions.
    [​IMG]

    Ancient Yellow Dragon
    Good Gold. I got Crowns from this one. Scales, selective potions and +Weapon for salvaging. I am thinking this should give more as it's a bit hard to kill for most people.
    [​IMG]

    Clockwork Dragon
    Good gold. Bunch of potions and +Weapon for salvaging.
    [​IMG]

    K'Kongg
    I am not sure what to expect from this creature or robot, did it because it close to the clockwork.
    [​IMG]

    Aether Dragon
    I always expect so much from this Boss. Sometime you get really good Artifact from it, but with my luck its always hit or miss with this one. Meticulous Collection looks nice.
    [​IMG]

    Red Dragon
    I never expect anything special with this just the head might be useful. Seems like it drops bunch of potions.
    [​IMG]

    Banamathr
    You will have to battle 3 wave battles to get to this Boss. Very easy boss for me but it hit really hard be very careful. Do not die or you will have to do the last wave over again, one mistake if your soloing is really bad. This is part of my daily quest routines.
    Gold is good and bunch of potions.
    [​IMG]


    As you can see all the loot is bloated with creating materials. If these were taken out, its only the gold and possible Artifact they drop is what is great about them. The experience and producer XP from the Field Dressings are all good. The stronger the player the less the loot feels bad for them. So people get better for loot to be sweet for you.

    I always solo as this is the best way to manage my income. Grouping will be worth it for me once Spinglekog is fixed and maybe when @Chris new dungeon is out.
    If your doing these boss runs with group I am not sure how happy you will be, but it will be quick and when you finish you can divide the loot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  4. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    You see, maybe this is because of all my years playing Runescape, but this is something that has always felt normal for me, especially in a player run economy. Like you've mentionned, the majority of the MMOs out there have these nice equipment drops and what not, but player gear is not crafted, it is acquired, meanwhile in Shroud, it is (supposed to be) crafted. So how do you help loot in a game where the best gear is crafted and not dropped? You drop the materials to help craft these items! I'm actually surprised there aren't more copper/iron or other materials like this, but it is what it is. In Runescape, people run the same mobs for hours after hours, thanks to a nice skill they can train called "Slayer", which is some sort of hunting quest system : You go to the Slayer Master, he gives you a task (i.e. Kill 236 elves), and you get slayer experience from this. Because of this, people have made insane amounts of loot calculations with an estimated Gold/Hour due to the ressource drops... Back when I used to play, I killed some mobs that gave herbs, required to train your herblore (Alchemy) skill, and that was pretty much the only valuable loot those guys had, but I could spend hours after hours just killing them for their herbs, and selling it back to crafters who would then use these to make potions!

    So for me, this loot concept is not special or niche, its one I have been used to, so I understand it very well. You always have to stop at the "why" and consider every other aspects apart from the PvE when you consider things like loot.

    Nice tips for newer/unexperienced players by the way! It is ohh so very true, chose your playstyle, stick to it, and invest heavily into it until you can do whatever you want to do with it, only then should you start branching out. Reach your goal, then start wandering!
     
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  5. macnlos

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    [QUOTE="Crafter Quests : A quest given to a player requiring him to deliver a certain quantity of crafted pieces of gear, with specific requirements, with rewards ranging from materials to a chance of receiving a Crafting Artifact (or the components/essences to CRAFT Crafter Gear).[/QUOTE]

    So basically UO Bulk Order Deeds? I agree. It's not that BODs are cutting edge, they've only been around for what... 15 years...
     
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  6. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    So basically UO Bulk Order Deeds? I agree. It's not that BODs are cutting edge, they've only been around for what... 15 years...[/QUOTE]

    Hey I didn't play UO all that much, when I did was to play with my tamer I had gotten from a token, but I never got into craftings to the point of actually completing BODs, but in my head, this system is the best one possible for a game like Shroud, so it made sense :p
     
  7. Jayfire

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    I think also just adding a bunch more unique weapons and armor for salvaging would also help out.

    and if they just committed to maybe two new items a release for a little bit it would help
    Yes bulk deeds!! It has been suggested many times I forget the reason for them turning it down....

    Artifacts help, but you only really get artifacts when your high level. For low to mid level players what kind of loot is there for them to give them an incentive to keep playing??

    Also K'Kong is pretty sad, and that is what a good mid level player opponent, this is why it is so hard to bring in new players and hold there attention. A new player would probably work so hard getting what they needed for there first boss go up against a K'Kong and just feel like the effort was for nothing.

    Players that don't craft will probably see a lot of the loot as just junk loot. Also with the whole they could sell them to crafters, I mean look at the market system now. It would probably be difficult to find someone to buy them or you would spend a day looking for buy orders or start a vendor and hope someone happens upon them especially since high traffic areas are coveted and you need to pay a lot to even get a vendor in a high traffic area.

    Daily quests might hold attention but you have to hunt them down and look it up, would be nice if there was a like bounty board in every town that you could go to, and get some daily or weekly quests.

    But I have strayed a bit, perhaps if some of the common artifacts were opened up to some lesser tier opponents, or I guess you could do fragments of an artifact and once you got enough fragments you could combine them into a common
     
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  8. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

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    I think SotA already has all the the necessary ingredients for good loot. It just needs someone to take the time to distribute rewards appropriately for the required time and difficulty of content. There is quite a bit of content in the game that is pretty good that doesn't get much play because of inconsistency of rewards that steers everyone towards a very small number of places.
     
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  9. Jayfire

    Jayfire Avatar

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    Lazlo is not completely wrong I think a good look needs to be taken at mid level content

    because there seem to be this huge wall from mid level to high level

    Also tier 10 is not mid level content, we need to take in casual gamers people who don't always min max and want to just play the character how they want this is also a huge problem we have been designing for hardcore players looking at the top players but how many people would play alot but not necessarily make it to 120 or higher level maybe around level 80 you should start to get some decent stuff but right now level 80 is the same loot as like level 40 especially if you don't min max everything. A new player will make mistakes dump experience into skills they eventually dont use or trees they eventually abandon
     
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  10. majoria70

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    Yes yes to a bounty board idea. Reasons to acquire and do things are part of what distinguishes loot value. I know it's difficult to get the rush we've had from the loot we've gotten in some games here because of missing details. For example Pop ups and sound state you've acquired a valuable item needed by crafters, or needed for quest, needed by certain merchants, or needed some other way. Our notification system is not exciting. So much is lost in chat windows. It is rediculous imo.

    We are so restricted in loot to not offend one group over another. Many of The past ideas for loot to be interesting all take man power and creation. Like Runes of Magic eggs that hatch and grow up, like Wows special mounts, and many other ideas that give that excited feeling of acquiring an interesting and fun item.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  11. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    I wish you luck in reviving this horse's corpse sufficiently that further beating might actually yield results. We have beaten it to death so often in the past four years or so that I don't think there's enough to resurrect.
     
  12. Jayfire

    Jayfire Avatar

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    I have taken a hiatus for awhile, hoping progress had been made. Most what I see is more new content for high end players some for all usually incomplete. Focus on episode 2 which is all high end content and behind a paywall. With little changes to things that might actually make a difference to the playerbase.

    I can try to beat some dead horses or officially give up, I don't want to abandon this game quite yet but I'm close....
     
  13. Violet Ronso

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    Ohh, like an expansion? I don't really remember well, but if my memory serves me well, I haven't heard much people complaining that Expansion packs were sold to players for games like WoW, ESO or others, so they could continue playing the current content, or buy the expansion pack filled of new high end content, which was actually their choice... They are working on Episode 2 scenes, while fixing episode 1 bugs, and reworking episode 1 content. Most of the money to be made or the experience to be made is in Episode 1 content as well, how many people do you hear talking about their gold per hour in spindelskog, or all the time they have been spending in Utheim? I mean the zones I still hear about are generally : The Rise (EP1), The Fall (EP1), Tartarus (EP1), East Reach Gap (EP1), Elysium/Crag Mines (EP1), Ruined Keep (EP1), actually the list goes on.


    You could also simply take a break, those actually help in regaining the urge to play, and can help a lot when your motivation and trust in this game is at an all time low, I know, I just came back from a 2 month break of playing the game, only lurking these forums hoping something would hook me back it, which actually happened. If you don,t feel good about playing, take a break, keep a lurking eye on the forums and twitter posts, and when something hooks you back in, we will all be there to welcome you back!
     
  14. Jayfire

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    An expansion is a large amount of content released at once fyi, Also I understand the concept what I'm saying is fix the game before trying to do an expansion
    No other company says hey pay for the expansion now and we will slowly roll out stuff to you over the next couple years and one day we will say oh that was the end of the expansion

    I just said I took a long break

    But if the attitude is if you don't like it just leave and don't try to have productive conversations and maybe one day the game will be to your liking, then no wonder the daily playerbase is 80 people

    I'm sorry for giving a damn and trying to help I'll stop doing that
     
  15. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    But here is the thing, They called it "Early Access", which is something that tons of games do now, don't know if they do it with expansions, but they make people pay to get early access or access to the alpha/beta programs, so yes, many other companies say "Hey pay for the product (Underlined to show the change in the quote) now and we will roll out stuff to you over the next couple "time period"

    Also, I am not trying to get you to not promote constructive criticism or productive conversations, I mean haven't I been participating in the most contructive way to this thread? I only got a shift in attitude due to these comments :

    Which is false, like I mentioned, they are adding new scenes for the Episode 2 early access members while fixing bugs and reworking systems for all, somehow people think the Episode 2 stuff is super shiny and cool, but the honest truth is end game players still spend a lot of their time in Episode 1 where the best everything is right now, only possibly being beaten by Spindelskog Extreme which can give far more experience, but at a very high threat level no mid-game player could handle, so it makes sense.

    I mean, The recent food chances, the plentiful new decos/conversationalists/bunch of other content that is constantly being released for everyone, which actually makes a difference for a ton of people, maybe simply not you and your group. I know I've spent almost a whole year waiting for SOME content that would affect me, and it pretty much took a year before a single thing was added to the game which affected me in a positive manner, but I still realize that there is a large player base happy with the updates, so I'm not saying that the changes arent making a difference to the playerbase, because there are a lot more minds in this playerbase who enjoy other things.

    And this was the only reason for me telling you to take a break. If you are close to abandoning the ship, its time to take a break, thats my way of seeing things, sorry it got you all sorts of riled up...

    Guess I took the hint as well, I remember trying to actually help you enjoy your character and build it up correctly so you could reach these stronger scenes, but then you just want to abandon, so maybe I should too? ;)

    Anyways, thread is going off topic, I'm partly to blame, so I'll leave it be, I said what I had to say, if some people just want to look at the negative things and compare this game to WOW or ESO everytime they see something different about Shroud, I'll let you guys have your fun here, I'll go enjoy the game I'm playing instead.
     
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  16. AzazelReborn

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    I agree with Jayfire on the expansion part no company establish an Episode 2 and call it Early Access. This is actually a rip off, it's not illegal because you have a choice not to buy it but morally I do not think its right.

    By doing this the company could keep saying it is early access for the next five years. There are no established end goal for episode 2 or when episode 3 could start. You could call it a milking game. Any new idea the developers come up with could be called episode 2 content when ever they want and the players has no say about it.
     
  17. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Given the small size of the team, the alternative is we get nothing new for a year or two while they build ep2. I'm bored enough that I barely play; if I have to wait until late 2021 to get something new to do, I'm probably not coming back.
     
  18. Ysold

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    Putting in 2 cents as a crafting oriented mid-level player: I'm quite happy with loot as it is. In this stage, I'm getting access to resources like Obsidian stag/bear/boar/wolf meat to make some awesome foods and pet foods. Some more specific resources too, like mechanical parts, that I long had been looking forward to. I've also been farming barbarians for gear to salvage for patterns, and obsidian chips.
    I'm also getting my first artefacts, which is quite exciting because they are rare, although I'm not quite sure yet what I'm going to do with them :) But the fact that there is rare loot to find by itself makes it enjoyable to go out and look for it and trying out different zones to find good looting opportunities. If this stuff was more common, it would rather ruin the fun....

    But I guess this is going to be an unpopular opinion :)

    Ysold.
     
  19. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    It's not something hard to understand. For me basically its all about the desire to improve your game and put bit of effort.