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Min/Maxers are Being Left In Dirt

Discussion in 'Release 55 Feedback' started by Zeddicus Zorander, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. Zeddicus Zorander

    Zeddicus Zorander Avatar

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    Why did you nerf the high end soo much? One thing I highly enjoyed was seeing the high numbers on my character when I attacked something. Now it doesn't matter if I have two wands or a wand/shield combo because I only gain about 8 damage from 216 to 232 attunement in fire.. I feel what's the point of trying to min/max my character if I get such a huge nerf from the recent 55 release? Please revert the changes or make some major adjustments in 56 please... Yes I agree new players needed a buff but why nerf the high end too? why not just increase the strength of mobs or something? sheesh.
     
  2. Sorthious

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    Because, they are trying to close the gap between power levels of new players and veteran players. Too many people complain that, "It will take me forever to catch up to the veteran players," and so, they give new players a boost with Double XP, while at the same time slowing down veteran players with XP Attenuation. I understand that not everyone has the time to invest in leveling their avatars, but there shouldn't be a rush to advance your character levels. This, in itself, decreases the longevity of the game. In a game like this, you will always have players more advanced than other players. This doesn't necessarily mean that you can't contribute or that you aren't a good player. Even before the attunement nerfs there wasn't a ton of difference between a Lvl 80 player and a L100+. If you stifle a players ability to progress in the game, what reason will there be for a player to continue playing?
     
  3. Barugon

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    You will get absolutely no traction with Port using this argument.
     
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  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I wouldn't call that a "nerf", but a prime example of diminishing returns.
    Time to put points elsewhere..........;)
     
  5. Zeddicus Zorander

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    I probably should have put more thought behind my post but it was a quick item on my mind... If you can think of a better reason then please by all means reply with one.
     
  6. Zeddicus Zorander

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    It's a nerf if the same resources spent in a skill result in less than what I received prior..I call it nerfing you can call it diminishing returns or inflation .... I'm still getting less for the same amount of work I put into it.
     
  7. Violet Ronso

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    Ever since I started interesting myself to how the game was thought out and planned, I have gotten the feeling that the game was specifically against Min-Maxing in the terms of people going overboard with numbers to squeeze ou as much juice as they can from those numbers. Now this is possibly only my interpretation and I might be all wrong here, but I've always felt like the game was designed around "hybrid" builds which you can explain in your own way (I heard someone talking about using earth magic as his replacement for Bushido in UO, obviously not being the same thing, but that being the reason why his Avatar used "magic".

    Now obviously they will try to make the minimum a bit better, and bring down the maximum, so that you still have a high end, but that it wont result in you going into an entirely different league. They want people to be of similar caliber, with people who have more time on their hands will still get better stats, but without becoming Usain Bolt vs my nephew on the 100m sprint...

    Its unfortunate it has affected you so hard, but maybe that means you can add something else to you game to make up for the huge diminishing return you are currently experiencing!
     
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  8. Zeddicus Zorander

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    But it is what makes it fun for us power players who enjoy maximizing our characters to the edges of what is possible... You enjoy your gameplay style and I enjoy mine... there should be room for both play styles without having to nerf one.
     
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  9. Zeddicus Zorander

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    Why should my type of play style be sacrificed? I enjoy playing a hybrid character too I have sun magic and fire magic combo which is unique but I want to be one of the best sun fire mages via min-maxing...I should be able to do this and be rewarded for my great great time investment... just like a miner is rewarded for spending 96 hours in the mine...
     
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  10. Violet Ronso

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    But you are still the best, it might just be "Only" 8 damage difference, but that 8 damage difference is still better than the next guy? It is not stopping you from achieving the goal you seem to have, its just making sure that your goal stays in the same ballpark as the others.
     
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  11. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Are you saying you are doing LESS damage with your 232 attunement than you were with 216 attunement ?
     
  12. monkeysmack

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    The OP has a point. Changing the rules of the game mid-game is really unfair and damaging to the game experience of many players. As a released game, it should undergo balancing only as an unusual emergency measure. Many people play games to improve their numbers over time and see the results of the improvement and feel satisfied. If you suddenly remove the results of their hard work, it's pretty much not fun and frankly, depressing. I can't imagine playing a game of Civilization and building a huge tank army and just as I'm about to roll over an enemy civilization, the game dev comes in and says, "Looks like you are a little to powerful. Gonna have to reduce tank damage by 50%". HAHA. Who would want to play a game like that? All my time building the army and my strategy down the drain.
     
  13. Violet Ronso

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    Look at patchnotes for all the popular games out there, they all do this, ALL OF EM. league of legends will nerf some champions so hard they arent used in competitive play for months. Fortnite, the most popular game right now just nerfed shotguns by slowing down their reload speed, now people use them less and less.

    Adjustments to game features and mechanics is something that happens in games all the time nowadays, so why can't Port do the same thing to their game? They didn't make attunement worthless, they just made the gap between the lower end and the higher much smaller.
     
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  14. Zeddicus Zorander

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    No I but I am only doing 8 MORE damage on my spell.... 18+ attunement and I ONLY get 8 more damage? that's terrible.
     
  15. Snakyy

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    What developer have done is to encourage people not to specialize to anything and train everything to magical skill level 80. Age of 80 lvl to everything. No difference between characters, all are clones. Awesome!

    Since I can even now get all of my skills to 80 if I pull out those hundreds of MILLIONS I have drop now nearly useless magic schools. I'll actually bet I would indeed get better bang on my bucks if I do that. Horrible game design. But that is how Portalium want to roll.
     
  16. monkeysmack

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    That's a good point and not something I was aware of because I don't cycle through a lot of MMOs. Well really any MMOs. I was going to play this game in single player but ended up just playing in online mode for the heck of it. I suppose these nerfs would hit single player people as well though. However, my poor memory says that WoW for example, only had nerfs a few times a year.. it was pretty infrequent and the changes were not taken lightly. That was 10 years ago. There might be more people playing MMOs and more competitively so that the danger of breaking them is a lot higher. This would necessitate post-release balancing.

    The other problem I have is that someone designed the mathematical equations for combat so they have prefect predictive power of what's going to happen when people reach high level attunements. Sooooo, if you didn't want that to happen you could have changed the equation originally to get the outcome at high level that you want. You can also do an easy database query to compute the possible attunements achievable from gear and skills to see how high it can get. Seems simple to me but there could be factors I'm not aware of.

    Could be that the complexity of MMOs has reached a point that they mirror real-world conditions and are thus, not fun. The real world is messy and not fair.. who wants to play that?
     
  17. Zeddicus Zorander

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    Exactly they want everyone to have lvl 80 in all spells and so everyone will have a carbon copy ..this is not creating diversity between characters...

    This is unacceptable especially when your patch notes say they made a 'small change to attunement'. @Chris
     
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  18. Violet Ronso

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    Your explanation makes sense, I see where you are coming from! And yes, the shift in nerfing necessity is that more people play, but also more people min-max also. The perfect example in a case like this one is Runescape. They had the game running for years, did a huge update, and a few years ago ran a 3rd version of the game people called 2007scape (as they used the build from 2007). When 2007scape came back, tons of things that players deemed 100% normal in 2007 got nerfed a few weeks later because players knew better how the game worked.

    Also, yes, someone writing the formula could have "predicted" this, but what happens is they made that formula, and then new things got added to the game, that the formula did not account for innitially, resulting in the formula needing revisits. A single player game might not get hit by nerfs because 1. You arent fighting against other players, so no PvP tuning needed. 2, you can just adjust monsters to counteract this, and 3, you have a much smaller "overview" of the game, and what I mean by that is you dont have someone looking at the game data from every player every week saying : "hmm, this specific skill is getting 90% usage rate, why is that?" Its a single player game, the devs let the players have fun, and breaking the game wont ruin the fun for everyone. Unfortunately the Single Player side of SotA is affe ted by its multiplayer counterpart.
     
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  19. Zeddicus Zorander

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    [QUOTE="Unfortunately the Single Player side of SotA is affe ted by its multiplayer counterpart."[/QUOTE]

    This game should NOT have a single player mode at all in my opinion and should NEVER take priority over the multi-player aspect of the game.
     
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  20. Violet Ronso

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    Unfortunately, the single player version of this game is what made this game happen in the first place. A lot of people helped kickstart this project because of that single player aspect. In a case like this one, unfortunately promisses will win over opinions.

    Also I never said it was taking priority, ehat I said was, in reponse to monkeysmack, that yes, the single player game will receive these nerfs because of what happens in multiplayer.
     
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