Miners think ore spawn is too slow but still hate meticulous??

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Arkah EMPstrike, Feb 12, 2019 at 10:51 AM.

  1. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    Why? A meticulous proc gets you more ore faster off fewer nodes. I dont understand this logic as it pertains to gold and silver.
     
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  2. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Ah. Theory crafting. Where is my popcorn? I was asking myself the very same question.
     
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  3. Rowell

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    Personally, I like meticulous because it gets me more ore per node.
    Some people don't like it because it slows them down (having to wait for the extra strikes, with no additional XP for it). They can't collect XP as fast because they're stuck waiting for the additional hits.
    It's all a matter of preference.

    I think if each additional hit on a meticulous strike gave XP, it wouldn't be so looked down upon.
     
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  4. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Ah so its miners who are just mining for xp. I forgot some folks just mine numbers
     
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  5. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    No, it is miners who want the most out of their time.

    Not only do you get XP and other materials from the first collection attempt, but you can sometimes get more than one unit of ore from it as well.

    Meticulous ONLY gives you an extra piece of ore, nothing more, nothing less.

    This is the reason why they hate meticulous in general, and think ore spawn is too slow.

    Minute for minute, you get more ore AND XP and materials (which can be equally as important as the ore itself when you are looking to craft the more valuable materials) by not using meticulous than you do allowing it to process. That being said, there are some that will take the location they are mining into consideration, and allow some meticulous gathering procs to finish, to level out the spawn time, and still get more than if they used meticulous religiously.
     
  6. Nikko

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    Perfectly stated. This has been tested and thoroughly talked about. It is fact that you get roughly the same amount of ore (sometimes even less ore) and a decent amount less XP per hour when you have high skill in Meticulous. Hard to argue with facts and data. Meticulous would suddenly be worth it if you got a 25-50% bonus (250-500XP per T5 node) every time you hit a meticulous collection. I would raise that skill to 80 if that were the case.
     
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  7. Feeyo

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    Nah, spawns are perfectly fine.
     
  8. Vladamir Begemot

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  9. amarious

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    I like the idea of meticulous and think respawn is too slow. When I'm waiting 10-15 minutes for the entire room to respawn..and respawn all at once .. Something is wrong.

    I'll be testing meticulous when I get some time to, but I think I get both sides of the debate.
     
  10. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I think there are really a few ways meticulous should be handled:
    • As you note, award experience since you are actually going through the collection process again. Perhaps not based on the node (which might be harder to hook up), but say just 50xp per meticulous completion would be something.
    • Tie meticulous to exceptional. Every time you get an exceptional, which instantly completes the bar, you start on a meticulous. This changes how it fires, so it will require some number crunching, but this means that you only actually wait through one bar. You could still get multiple exceptionals in a row, and thus multiple meticulous, but the number would decrease as exceptional rate is not as high as meticulous rate.
    • Introduce gathering and crafting minigames, with active glyphs you can use to increase your chance for certain effects. In Mining, you might have a glpyh that increases a chance for number of rare components, one that increases exceptional chance, etc. Crafting can increase chance for success, chance for exceptional, chance for recovery on failure, etc.
    I really like meticulous myself, but I'm also not one who does gathering for hours on end. I don't like watching progress bars that much.
     
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  11. Scoffer

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    It all comes down to simple maths. If it takes 5 seconds to mine a node and my options are:

    Spend 5 seconds watching the bar go up
    Get 1,000 xp
    Get 1-5 Granite
    Get 1-3 Copper
    Get 1-2 Tin
    Get 1-2 Tungsten

    Or if I meticulous:
    Spend 5 seconds watching the bar go up
    Get 1 copper

    Those are basically your two options. With silver and gold its slightly mitigated in that you don't get anything "extra" but its still first hit gives 1-3, meticulous gives 1 so its less obvious.

    With that being said, the recent nerf to the respawn in the mines means I have to rely on meticulous in order to not out mine the spawn. If I do a lap with only a few meticulous actions I end up standing at the beginning for 5-10 minutes waiting for respawns. If I get enough meticulous procs the first nodes are back and I can keep going.

    The whole more is better argument is based on if there is enough nodes to keep you mining. If you can see the next node that needs mining then meticulous just slows down the amount you get and the xp you get for doing it across whatever span of time you are using as a measurement. If however, like me you mine quicker than the 15 minute respawn time you are just stood around with no ores to mine so speed becomes irrelevant at that point as your yield is entirely dependent on the spawn and your meticulous becomes worth it.

    In spectral in particular I have started to clear out the ores and then use a teleport to zone scroll to go do something else for 10 minutes rather than stand around with nothing to mine. Its such a small zone that after you get the 44 ores your only options become Stand there for 10 minutes doing nothing or Go do something else and come back later.
     
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  12. Adam Crow

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    Another good option is you mine spectral alternating between 2 separate accounts.

    Once it's cleared I log out with one character and log in another and clear it. Rinse and repeat. Zero downtime that way and tons of free rope lol!
     
  13. Scoffer

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    The flaw in the system is still obvious though if character 1 has nothing to do for 10 minutes while you do something else (i.e. play another character)
     
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  14. Vladamir Begemot

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    I buy rope, 20g per.
     
  15. kaeshiva

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    Even with meticulous collection at grandmaster I easily out-mine Spectral and Elysium now; I'm not standing in one spot, I am running the entire mine, hitting every node and gem, killing all the things that attack me along the way, and arrive back at the start having cleaned out the entire mine and then have nothing to do except stand there while there are no ores in the entire place.

    Its not about "mining for exp" its about "standing around doing nothing" which is not engaging gameplay.

    Meticulous mitigates the wait a little bit, sure - but considering the minimal gain for raising it beyond 100 (as its a 2x cost skill) with the way respawns are now, it doesn't make enough of a difference. You're still sat. I've stopped buying expedience potions and downgraded from true bronze pick to prosperity pick (which is slower) and I *still* outmine the spawn.

    If meticiulous gave the same experience AND YIELD as a fresh node, it would make meticiulous more attractive, but it wouldn't fix the "standing around with nothing to do" problem.
    As it stands, meticulous does little to mitigate this problem - standing and waiting for 9 minutes is slightly better than standing and waiting for 10 minutes, but standing and waiting still sucks.
     
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  16. FrostII

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    Yea, you're right @Adam Crow - but that's an unattractive "work around" to a problem that - instead - should just be FIXED.

    Sometimes the tedium aspects of SotA are beyond ludicrous ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 2:27 PM
  17. FrostII

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    This ^^^^^ exactly !
     
  18. Adam Crow

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    I disagree, endless mining of nodes in a very compact scene like that should be limited.

    Also it's a very attractive workaround to anyone trying to build producer pools on different characters.

    When you say fixed, what exactly do you mean?
     
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  19. FrostII

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    Limited to what and why ?
     
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  20. Adam Crow

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    When you say fixed, what exactly do you mean?