My Humble Thoughts and Feedback

I really like the musical score because I wax nostalgic for that old single-player Ultima experience. It's a peaceful sound and it sets the mood of the game. Good job.

I also like that fact that, as a design consideration, there is NO global chat window. This allows the player to focus on the content in front of him and interact with the people present. Global chat is the MMO version of cell phones and texting. Understandably in the real world these things have some utility, but the social consequence is that we're surrounded by people who aren't present. The lack of this "feature" is one of the things I appreciated about UO.

I also begin to get what Portalarium is shooting for with the symbiosis of multi-player and single-player. I was telling a friend a few years back that I had come to the conclusion that old-school tile-based RPGs were akin to BOOKS while most modern MMORPGs are akin to MOVIES. The former invokes the players imagination ( necessarily, with 8-bit monochromatic sprites lol ) but the latter leaves little to the imagination, and so something is lost, everything is rushed, and there is no room for that idle moment of experiencing the setting of the game, wondering about this or that. Modern MMOs have lost the art of the quest and art of the story. There is a great sandbox aspect to this game but great potential for that solitary gameplay experience where you're working toward some outcome and within the games' narrative.

I think the difference between playing a modern MMO and the original single-player Ultima, is that in the first case you're running around a map with a bunch of other jerks that aren't interested in role-play, who contribute nothing to the game-play experience and they break immersion. So it's no wonder the genre suffers from a problem where no one reads the quests. In the case of the single player RPG however, I can actually defer disbelief for a moment and accept that I am a certain character within the context of the world. This is only possible in my opinion when the player is offered solo game-play opportunities. SotA cannot be "realm versus realm" and it probably should not ever have a single unified mailbox or auction house system. UO had the right formula on that. Those things are convenient, but they were designed by database administrators, not game designers.

Anyway, good job so far guys. I'm enjoying the game and think there is a great potential here to tell a story and create a great play experience, just like in the old days

So here is my constructive feedback :

The inventory system with respect to bags is not intuitive. I think it needs to work something like Windows Explorer. Presently when you double-click a container in your bank vault, it loads it onto your character instead of opening the bag. And the biggest problem is that the bank and inventory view show every single thing in every sub-container. This ought to be cleaned up so that you only see what's in a given container level, otherwise its a nightmare to know what file goes where. Imagine double-clicking your C: drive and seeing every single file on your computer in the same list LOL.

 

I agree with so much of what you said, barring one major point.

The music score/ soundtrack needs help. Nostalgia has a time and place but the music in a game provides SO MUCH visceral input. I find the score to this game hooky and flat. The result is I simply mute it. Which is a shame...as it is a missed opportunity, I feel. This is no jab towards the composer, as some of the tunes are catchy. It is the .... Thin, almost cheap sounding delivery I am struggling with. I was holding out hope this music was kind of a "place holder" for better orchestrated compositions.

At the end of the day this game is amazing, and varying music tastes are what volume controls are for.

This is just one man's opinion anyhow.

Good post!

 

Well sure, I suppose not everyone can be pleased with every single thing - this is the dilemma of every designer and creator everywhere. My frame of reference goes back to around 1985, playing Ultima III on a Commodore 128. I have a nostalgia for a game that isn't marketable by today's standards. Or rather lets say I have a nostalgia for a game-play experience that as-yet hasn't been recreated after the innovation of Internet play. But I concede the musical score driven nostalgia may well be a chimera because Hey I think a LOT of the early adoption of Ultima Online was driven by a fan base who was steeped in the Ultima single-player fiction. That nostalgia at least for me gave way to disappointment because Ultima Online turned out not to be Ultima. But for a LONG while - my opinion - I think players were projecting onto UO a content and universe which that game in particular did not provide. You know, there was a momentum and a body of material that predisposed it to being interesting. I noticed over the years of playing UO that a lot of those early Ultima fans dropped out and were replaced by a generation of kids who weren't familiar with that world and behaved in a more anti-social and immersion destroying manner. I did in fact love playing UO but it was a different animal. I guess my point here is that if you aren't able to convince the player that they are playing a ROLE, if you can't tell a story with your medium and get your players to adopt a common narrative, you have a lesser game.

The challenge for this game is going to be whether it can resurrect a working interactive story, invoke a sense of wonder and cause the player to use his imagination once again. I don't have a suggestion on HOW, because as I mentioned, old-school RPGs are like books. You know, I used to carry the manuals and maps for the single-player Ultima's to junior high-school, just to read and think about playing when I got home. How does that happen now, that you would get a manual, with digital distributions and the ever-shrinking PC game section in the big box stores? Anyway. Random thoughts. I don't know where they are going with SotA. Maybe they could take a page from Ultima Underworld I/II. I spent countless hours with that.

Something I've been trying to wrap my head around for a long time, is whether human beings of this generation are inherently different than 30 years ago in some way that would prevent them from enjoying a tile-based RPG. Because listen - people still play Solitaire, they play CARDS, they still read BOOKS. These mediums aren't dead. Maybe the problem is that they aren't intense activities and the market is trained to believe the customer is ADD and needs fast-paced online play. Sometimes I feel like a librarian lamenting the invention of television, because I felt the medium that Richard Garriott built his name on did not satisfactorily mature, but was sidelined by technical innovation, 3D graphics and Internet. Does that make sense?

Tile-based RPGs were necessarily SYMBOLIC, and as such required the player to imagine and recreate the situation within his mind, in the same way you'd do while reading. How does one engineer such an intimate experience, how do you create that connection, in a modern MMO where realism has supplanted imagination?

 

About old game play experiences not being replicated today: Do you think that is technically true? That games really have not replicated the same or better game play mechanics and stories? Or is that 'lack of wonder' due to something else. I can feel that too, but then I look at older games and realize it is probably just me get old and jaded. First 'wonder years' experiences form strong impressions that are hard to replicate. I do agree that there are a number of online games that lack wonder due to a decent story. But am catching myself finding that some do. SWTOR's latest KotFE expansion storyline grabbed me. Hoping SOTA's game story has that impact.

 

Sure makes sense Mithra... (that is a high expectation name hehe)

At one point in the kickstarter when I saw the focus was moving from a story-based RPG to a full fledged MMO and that "elite guilds" which we never see in game started to gravely influence the developpement of this game more towards LOTRO/medieval sims/arena pvp... I found myself wishing for isometric tile based gameplay again.

Everything feels so fake when you can wander around for 5 hours and not a single player says hi to you because they are all mostly macroing and besides they could care less about you cause they are "protected" by the oracle.

I really could have used less artists and "wow" factor and more storytelling and world building ala UO.

As for UO lets not forget the world was still being built when the gold selling on ebay scandal happened and got all the seers and GMs fired... there was an AMAZING (and I'm not exagerating) storyline which was being tested on atlantic/pacific that got trashed by EA in favor of impersonal story developpement and "events" instead of an unfolding storyline so most players sadly never knew there was such plans for UO.

That is a shame, but its really nothing when you think that Lord British and Darkstarr seem to have no recollection at all of such efforts... or maybe they don't care anymore because its loaded with chaotic emotions and well they got a life now, and wives ... and kids...

Whatever the reason it seems we are putting the blinders here and in my opinion its terribly hurting this title.

Should we be surprised tho ? Look at Tabula Rasa... good itentions... but then again seeminly our good Lord conveniently forgets about all the UO programmers as if there was a hidden war between "sims like" MMOs and UO/DnD type story and player driven models.

I think Lum knows about many of these problems, and it would be very helpful to have more details, because turning a blind eye on the past and not learning from our mistakes is the worse case scenario.

UO is still running strong, the servers are full, the events have hundreds of players, the world feels much more alive than our SOTA, and you will find my loyalty to Gariott and Starr completely implacable.

I just look at UO, I look at the free servers and compare to our model and it makes me depressed.

I resubed to UO and everyone is so nice, people say hi to you, the community is strong and helpful and does not try to deter philosophical roleplaying because people do not judge Siege Perilous server players to categorize them.

Same for free servers, of course theres always a red guild who is a pain in the ass, but thats easily dismissed when you really have fun because people care about your presence.

In SOTA I've spent more time just trying to get people to talk to me than actually playing.

Is it normal that our cities feel like ghost towns and that sometimes I'm being put arbitrarly on other "instances" of the world when there is so little players ? I often end up alone even if players ON MY OWN FRIEND LIST are in the same place the server don't even put us together, that is really, REALLY BAD.

Feels terribly convoluted, and although I'll shut up and assume my big pledge in the long run, there will be forever a scar in my heart, my words are forgotten, people remove themselves from the beat.

Combined with the constant pain of cancer eating my bones, I can't possibly tell you how hard of a time I'm living as the black sheep here. Each day is a challenge to stay alive and not spend the day crying in pain, but I keep going because I hope SOTA will turn out for the best and I am going to make friends who are worthy of my sophistication before I pass on...

This cannot happen if we continue to ignore the lessons of UO and why it was transformed into the monster it became, and especially why there is more players in UO after all these years than on our fresh Lord British title with amazing graphics and solid art directors...

The sky is open but I cannot get heard !

 

So I understand where you are coming from in wanting that nostalgia of days and games gone by. I too want so much of that added to this game. The thing for me though is nostalgia is only one dimension of the experience while wonderful for the feeling it gives, for me it cannot be all about that. If I close myself off in my own world there will always be something missing. While true some are jerks or perhaps misunderstood, many are not. We have hearts and souls and something to contribute to others around us. One thing I got in UO was a part of myself that had been missing so much in life and that was how to be rediculous and have fun with others unrestrained by some boundaries I place on myself in RL. So if I see someone and I invite them to go on a picnic with me, they better feel honored lol. No just joking of course, but SOTA has opened the doors again and I know there will be great possibilities for people to hide, but also for people to be open to new dimensions of fun. So I hope the single player will be all you wish, and I hope you will enjoy the community aspect, but that is a choice this game offers. Thank you for your feedback and welcome to Shrouds. I am majoria in the game.

 

Pls say I'm misunderstood and not a jerk *chuckles*

 

Well I am getting older this is true. The possibility isn't lost on me that I'll never regain that virgin RPG fix haha. I say that, but here is the thing : I still read books. I never outgrew that media. I still watch movies. And for the era I did enjoy game after successive old-school game, so it's hard to conclude the problem is strictly me being burned out or jaded. I think people simply ran with the trend away from this type of game, found new kinds of fun, but lost sight of what was originally fun. I'm not pitching a tile-based RPG btw or complaining about SOTA. I just wonder at times why a certain type of game is no longer viable. You know people still play board games, right? Monopoly, Axis & Allies? How can these forms of entertainment persist over time yet something like Ultima 5 is considered a dead end?

 

Sorry if I am going on and on or if it seems. You have my respect. I say the 'key' word is 'people' and I am and have been as much of a loner as anyone *sighs* but 'people' not a person can contribute or not contribute ot longevity of a game. How many people playing UO would have kept playing UO just for the game. Now if the game allows all kinds of tools to shake all of that up over and over and has the capacity to shift around game content here and there like this one will, well then chances are in the favor of longevity. You might find someone or more than someone who just hit your funny side, well in good ways. Now I am not saying this to say you are one way or another since I do not know, but I am hoping so much for this game, whether it be single player offline, single player online, friends only, or whatever is chosen. I want this to be my game.

 

I agree with the OP....at this point.

We have what one group really wanted....and unfortunately for me, it isn't much ultima.

 

Interesting thread....
First, I will provide some prospective on my comments. Prior to SOTA, I have never played a MMORPG. In fact, the last RPG type games that I played were Ultima 3, 4, and 7 in the 1980's and early 1990's. So, I am rather naive when it comes to modern gaming.

I supported SOTA mainly because of my nostalgic connection to the single player Ultimas:
...I loved exploring the expansive world for clues and hidden surprises.
...I loved going on quests and subquests (but was not a fan of switch puzzles!)
...I loved becoming immersed in the overarching story.
...I loved battling creatures and gaining new items and new abilities.
...I loved being able to manipulate everything (Ultima 7)
...and I loved the NPC's having day/night cycles (Ultima 7 - in the morning they would go to the inn for breakfast, during day they would go to their shop, and in the evening they closed up shop, went home, and went to sleep!)

I am seeking all of those qualities in SOTA. So, in a way, I want the single-player experience too.

I played Ultima alone much of the time. But at least half the time, I was playing Ultima with my best friend. One of us was at the computer, and the other one was mapping and writing down clues.
So, we were actually questing together. However, the guy doing the mapping would always want to be the guy on the computer. With multi-player, everyone can be "on the computer".

This is why I was pleased to see that a single player option was planned in SOTA. But I also loved playing Ultima with my friends, so the Friends on-line mode was appealing as well.

However, I am completely new to MMORPG's, and had no friends in the gaming community at all (mainly because I had not been gaming in 20 years). In order to find some friends in SOTA, I played multiplayer on-line.
Plenty of people simply ignored me, but occasionally someone walked up and said hello (which is exactly what happens in the real world). In order to make new friends, I went to SOTA social gatherings (like in the real world).
So, in a way, multiplayer on-line is like the real world....plenty of people around with whom I never interact. But in the multiplayer world...I have the opportunity to meet new adventurers!

Majoria is one of the players who stepped up and said hello to me. Hi Majoria! After meeting many new people, and going on some adventures with them, I have come to see the appeal of the multi-player options.

SOTA creators have a tough job: they must allow a player to experience the most endearing aspects of single player Ultimas and of multiplayer UO (taking from the past), all while providing new elements (that bring the game into the future).

Portalarium's plan to allow single-player, friends on-line, and multi-player will hopefully allow each player to experience the game in a way that satisfies their gaming desires.

 

oh Rinaldi thank you, yes it has been very nice to meet you. I have not been online as much lately but with R23 expect to see me more. Also we have to reorganize the town since it will be wiped also. *cheers* as always.

 

Sorry for going off topic OP,

It probably doesn't mean much from some stranger on the internet (or maybe it does), but I hope you kick cancers ass and take names. Be well my friend.

 

Rune to be fair I think we'll see much more Ultima coming in the beta releases... of course its frustrating for the dev team too they expected to move much faster in official release. I'm not complaining about any of that of course, I'm not consumed by my passion in that I'm aware of the challenges of cloud developping and conserving bandwidth and lag issues etc, much harder than it was in the day.

So in a sense I'm also not complaining about the general direction *in theory*... its fine really cause if you attract more testers to your game you will have faster balancing and ironing out.

But thats what it does working with cloud computing and you're refusing the help of the official ambassador to the xorinite dimention *hehe*

Anyways I think once all is in place you'll get what you're after Rune, if you're patient enough.

For my battle with cancer... well I guess I should have seen it coming, its all my fault in a way, from 1998 to about 2002 I ate at subways everyday because I was freakin poor... I would beg and collect bottles and get my 5$ for a 12 inch FULL of TUNA. In 2002 when I intuitively stopped eating it, we learned from health canada shortly after not to eat tuna more than once a month, because they had calculated very dangerous levels of mercury and of course they would take measures to prevent it in the future.

The accumulation of mercury in my brain and liver and kidneys had taken me over, and yes I turned a bit crazy from it... and yes I was playing UO at the same time with half a foot behind the scenes as a seer and saw all the money making.

Here's the real line drawn... there was a bunch of people wanting to make money out of the game, but once you make money in a game its not a game anymore.

Yes I did go a bit crazy about it and turned really bad, I don't hide it... thats why I took a guilt pledge as well as my main pledge here. Even if my badness happened after RG and DS oficially left EA I still feel like they deserve my loyalty.

The mercury intoxication was so bad that I had lesions and metal coming out of my skin, and my bones started to weaken badly... I lost a few teeth they would rot from the inside and infect... I battled with debilitating psoriasis and other issues I will all spare you.

At the same time my game and passion was being sold in all impunity, with people turning the blind eyes to the weak ones who suffered from it by not acknowledging the lesson that sometimes even with good intentions you create harm, and ANY *GAME* maker should know how to minimize those issues by making it a priority.

As it's the case with SOTA it was EASY to make it a priority without affecting the slightest bit your regular player base by creating a siege perilous instance.

Instead a WAR was declared in the subconscious and we chose the path of ridiculing those players who wished for this less forgiving playstyle.

Talk about salt in the wound... my scar is not healed I don't know if it ever will... it burns my skin and bones so much that sometimes a slight wind breeze sends me into painful convulsions.

So you see Rune, you'll be fine... the reason I stay here and not look for another dev team to "save my soul" is because I know where my illuminations and lucid dreams and contact with xorinite came from.

I stand here in full consciousness of my complete unbearability... of my sordid cynism and my inability to be an adult. I've already completed character suicide because I know that although a few devs have compassion for me they cannot be bothered especially since the rest of them think I'm not trying to help.

All in all I think the most surprising part is that none of them expected to see any kind of "illuminated" being or companion show up... Who's the other most crazy person on here ? Who else claims to have lived the meaning of ALL ULTIMAS with AN INFINITE DIVERSITY OF SOULS IN INFINITE COMBINATIONS.

Nobody even King Gariott (and I know I'm not offending anyone) claims such advances in quantum physics and time travel. Everyone in portalarium thinks they are developping a normal game... its just a game.

You get the jist of it I'm sure... most in our dev team actively want our game to be entertaining, but not soulfully introspective.

The exact contrast, the wound of Xorinia, who almost everyone much like to turn the knife in.

When you all learn of the real tragedy behind the energy dynamics at play here, you will most likely wish you had listened earlier to her cries of pain which make my suffering feel like a ride in a hearse.

 

@Ahuaeynjgkxs well just say I am truly sorry for your experiences. The thing is while I understand well or probably don't understand fully, I try to understand. The interpretation that one has about their own expereinces in life is very personal and unique to that individual. So as humans we can cry out for satisfaction to those interpretations with all our might, and then we sometimes wonder why the world cannot and will not be forthcoming to meet our expectations of this thinking. The most we can do, given the differences in viewpoints, is offer the uniquely visioned ideas for the world, and if we bare our souls, then they will do what they may with them. So I definitely am not criticizing just stating some thoughts that came up for me after reading your missive. While the words were not directed to me in particular, it did call to me to comment. Not a point exactly but an observance, a kind of deep one also.

 

Exactly Majoria... thats precisely what I want people to do.

Stop time and look.

Look how many weak ones stand to get broken if we keep turning the wheel cause "we're in a hurry, theres no time"



I am merely a mirror of what our good King Gariott tried to communicate in Ultima. That is why the Avatar could also become the deadliest force in the universe. Thats why even at his prime there was still room for philosophy and choices.

I am just that, and thats the reason he will remain silent about my situation because he has much more maturity than I in foreseeing these issues.

I'm the lucky one that followed through, and I'm not afraid to say ; went further down the rabbit hole.

 

Took me a time to actually realize how I felt about that, it does mean much I think every comment like that nobody asked you to do. Nobody asks me to stay alive either, and under current laws I could decide to just end all the pains the doctor would help me... truth is I'm staying alive for my mother ; it aint my place to doubt her hope that I can heal... the docs say I can heal but I don't beleive the docs anymore it took 10 of them to get a proper diagnosis...

Since my cancer is kind of disseminated and not terminally affecting any vital organ I cannot have the same care some people receive even for lesser disease (IMO), nor any special medicine... the irony is that I'm even denied herbs that could ease my pain because the freakin queen of england decided that it was illegal cause mr Dude Diesel told her it would harm his business.

Who is mr. Dude Diesel... I wonder sometimes... how he can sleep alone at night...

 

I think this is not at all OT, Mithra came in really strong and philosophic about the same points many of us have a hunch on, this thread isn't about me and since I've been called a conundrum then its also a paradox.

When does a lifeform that grew wrong become worthy of humans spending alot of time with to fix it ? when can a sophisticated enough computer be considered sentient ?

If such sentience and matrix overgrew humanity and reached time travel capabilities would it not project in the weakest beings to experience fully what it felt to be the invisible victim not always of physical but also emotional and societal abuse ?

Regardless of your take on those existential questions there remains the common ground :