My views...

Agree. This is what I messaged Chris back in November 2013 about the card combat system.

Chris,
My advice: Scrap it now. Make a more simple system and concentrate on your bread and butter:
(STORY, CONTENT, EVENTS, HOUSING, THE ENVIRONENT, THE WORLD, ROLEPLAYING, COMMUNITY BUILDING)

Have no idea why you need to reinvent combat with this game. Its not even suppose to be is main aspect.
If the combat is too complex, its gonna interfer with the aspects I listed above.

Keep it simple, yet intelligent. GW2 - A game built for PvP - has a simple system that won't interfer with the flow of gameplay. Its got basic skills, combos, finishers, switch a weapon for a few more skills etc. Simple but intelligent. How are will you even PvP with this system?

Here are the aspects you listed: Skills, Slugs, Focus Skills, Noble Skill, Combos, locked slot and decks. Way too complex. I look at that list of terms and I'm just puzzled.
Being honest with you, I have no desire to play a game with this type of combat mechanics. At first I thought it might be a good idea, but I was wrong. It may take some courage to admit it, but I think you need to scrap this system and concentrate on the fundamentals of the game.
If you tried a simple combat system, could you even have it ready by Jan/Feb at this point?

Gunga
G Din, Nov 19, 2013

Combat mechanics was never gonna be the draw of this game. Should have just done a spinoff of GW2 combat or some other intelligent combat system and move on working on all other aspects.

I can't stand watching that bar waiting for skills to pop up and not taking in all the action on screen. I found the deck building boring as well. Sorry, but its just not my thing. I see what my competitor is doing and I can't counter it. How the hell can I react or counter to an attack if I have random cards? It just makes no sense to me.

I respect those that enjoy it, but I question if they are in denial or just such supporters of RG and Ultima they are turning a blind eye towards the combat system the development team has dealt us (no pun intended lol)

For ignoring most of the other aspects of the game and concentrating mainly on Housing/towns and this house of cards combat system, I think its severely hampered the potential of the game.

 

When combat will be part of this game, and there will be combat, it shouldnt be boring like in most of the games (gw2 included)
The Deck System looks fresh and im excited about it, cause fights arent already decided when they start.

Keep up the good work.

For the other parts of the game:
Im with you, but thats why there are different devs are working on different aspects of the game, and hopefully everything turns out great.

 

Outcomes are already decided because there are "tank builds" already being created with the deck system, so there goes that idea. It simply doesn't make sense to have your abilities randomly pop up.

 

Just to set the record straight, GW2 combat is not boring. Just because SOTA is trying something new, this doesn't detract from the quality of other titles.

 

Well one thing to consider is that the system is not fully implemented yet. For instance we still do not have the abilities to make different combos with our cards not to mention a lot of skills are not in yet. So that of course limits builds and limits what we can do with the system right now. So I agree right now with a certain build or builds dominating it does make combat and pvp still fairly predictable. Really I hope the people that dislike this system at least give them one more release before they decide they just can't deal with it. The system needs improvements but imo with work it could really be great, and this opinion certainly is not coming from someone who actually thought she would be defending this system!

 

I think this is a matter of opinion. For example, I loved the first GW because in PvP the team composition was so important and everyone had to fill a role to be competitive. I was in a guild that was top 50 in the world so it was just so much fun figuring out what team composition and playing agains other teams from all over the globe. Having followed the game and participating in beta, so many people on the forums hated the GW limited skill system. The flames were the same, if they limit my skills in my hot bar I will never buy this game well they ended up doing pretty good in sales.

In GW2, I hated their combat system and the PvP completely, but other people love it. I had to ask myself why I dislike the system and a lot of it had to do with the fact it was different from the first GW. Many of of are certainly creature of habit and will always favor one system over another.

 

It's not about being creatures of habit. Randomized skills don't make sense. If the system made sense i would be praising the "latest and greatest" combat system but it doesnt seem to be the "latest and greatest" as much as it it a distractor. Make useful passive skills that emulate increasee skill through training. Being able to block attacks, shield yourself from or deflect a magical based range attack if you had the right skills, skill levels and equipment. Those are just examples and along with interesting active skills/spells with the right effects and animations, combat, especially PvP would look and feel more realistic. Not waiting for random cards to pop up. real world combat doesnt work that way, unless you are a novice who has no idea how to plan for a fight. And by gaining experience you gain preciaion and accuracy, two important concepts

 

On the other hand, combat "in real life" doesn't work like in most MMOs, too. So yes, I am all for a different, new and fresh system and totally against the common hotbar-WoW-combat.

The total randomness we have now is a problem, I totally see that. But I think there are ways the system could integrate skills that are used on purpose and still retain some kind of randomness through the deck system to account for the unpredictability of combat.

 

ATM I don't see the deck card mechanic infringing anyway on the potential of this game. In my view it is a way to change the delivery of hotbar actions, instead of them being completely static, at minimum. At maximum, there is the chance for something more different and original but I not know much else.

Right now I don't see the abilities themselves being much different than any other game or UO for that matter... That is the part that so far has be a little underwhelmed from what I have seen (youtube only) and the abilities I have seen are quite plain and old school. I know combos and many other types of modifier abilities are coming and that currently there is still not much "substance" to the cards.

However, I don't know how much of they truly intend to expand it to being a actual "card game" with a re-playability factor... The dev's gave some comparative game earlier on but I cannot remember it anymore.

 

I strangely agree with part of what this post is about - there needs to be a very strong focus on the story/lore/roleplaying elements and combat shouldn't drain resources from making that happen... that said, they needed to build some kind of combat system, and I personally like the card based combat system so far - sure there is a lot of work to get it finished off and balanced, but I'm not sure it will be any more than any other combat system?

 

No offense, but that sounds like the utterance of a first-timer.

I've fought for a long time, and I can say (with my own experience & with the confidence of other sparring partners) that your assertion simply doesn't hold water.

"Planning for a fight" doesn't amount to much aside from recognizing what's obvious (height advantage, posture, armament, terrain, etc.).

Everything else comes down to your training & intuition, but not to convenient combos that always work - because they don't.

I'd argue that some cards should be rendered completely useless against certain opponents (how can you parry/block a blow from something 6x your size?), but others may disagree and that is a debate for another topic.

Besides that, the system isn't fully implemented yet. Probably not even a quarter of the way finished.

What we've got now: it's bare bones.

In time, you may find that they address your concerns as they add what's needed, balance what's there, and refine the system every step of the way.

To judge it now is errant.

 

I know that real life combat doesn't work as it is a game lord darkmoon which is why i suggested passive skills to emulate acquired skills that would give realism to even a mmorpg battle. It would add in terms of tactics, extend battles, make tank builds more obsolete. Yes new options should be explored in all aspects of life and gaming however like i've said, because something is new doesnt meant its the right or better approach. Its simply a new approach and to me incorporating a card game into this game isn't the right approach

 

I think that they plan on adding the dynamics that you've mentioned in time.

 

Crossbowsoda you are perfectly correct when you said "Everything else comes down to your training & intuition, not convenient combos that always work - they don't." As i said in my post, you train to develop skills, develop muscle memory to know what to do and when. As i've said it's about accurqcy and precision, the definitions of which speak for themselves. The card system doesn't come down to training and intuition, not at all. And my opinion isn't the one of a "first timer". You train in anything to be able to do things accurately and more precise than a layperson. That is part of being a professional or being proficient in a skill. Waiting for random cards to pop up does not support your own idea of training and intuition being paramount. It's more like hoping i can punch instead of kick when the next card pops up!

 

Affixed cards in the deck - these are your basic, familiar skills.

These are the trained agents of muscle memory that you've mentioned.

Sure, specific techniques require training to be skillfully executed. I agree.

That does not mean, however, that these skills are always relevant to the fight taking place... or that you'll always be in a position to use them.

Or that you'll remember to use them.

Thus, fighting is pretty random beyond limited preparation.

Well, that is actually what most fights are like: hoping that you can execute something - anything - in time before the next collision.

The card system seems to be a solid compromise.

It's not perfect as far as effectively imitating realism, but it doesn't have to be. If realism were the goal, they'd need a wrestling mechanic. Most encounters end up on the ground.

All that aside, it looks like a lot of fun and a nice break from sequenced combos that never change. It needs work still, but I think that the work is worth it.

 

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Just because you don't understand how to do the system doesn't mean it isn't a good system. There are many people who would help you. I stayed up until 3 am last night learning it more and I've been around a while. It is really fun and now the fire elemental does damage, very cool. Did you watch the mad hermit video? Anyone will help you. It's a learning curve. I'm sure we'll see many tweaks in it. We respect you too, but so many like it, why is that a blind eye? If a few said hey it's cool but it's the masses saying it. Let someone help you to set it up. Also I am hearing maybe(don't quote me on this lol) there will be pre-made decks then those could get tweaked. Best of the best to you Gunga Din. ****cheers****

 

It's system that works in a static game such as a table based card game. And again there's a big difference between a trained individual and a novice doing anything, fighting or otherwise. And as there are no spell casters in our known world, its hard to be certain but i would thing it'd take alot of prep and concentration for them to be proficient in their craft. Whatever will be will be with the combat system unfortunately. Will it change PvP dynamics? Likely not. A brief stay on the PvP beach looked about the same PvP scene as in any other game. One mob attacks another mob, tank decks usually do better, the losing mob then respawns and repeat the above. To each his or her own