Necessity of tab targeting

I keep hearing that the devs are thinking of removing the tab targeting capability.

If they remove tab targeting, how would one target a specific enemy when surrounded by a mob of friends and enemies? I was recently in tiny the control point room of Vertas Pass. Without tab targeting I would not have been able to target any enemy at all since friends kept getting in the way, not to mention it was impossible to see anything because of the constant explosions, fire, etc. Any attack on my part without tab-targeting would have required AOE spells, and I didn't have any.

Aside from this issue, I am in favor of any game mechanic which avoids mouse clicks. Please don't remove tab targeting!

 

In UO you could left click & drag the targets ID bar over to the side of the screen & target that. That way you can always keep a potential target ready to engage

 

I disagree. The new free form combat is antithetical to tab targeting. I mean, sure they could mix both but we already have a hodge podge of systems that can't stand on their own without significant improvement and the devs making a choice on combat direction; decks, cards, tab targeting, no tab targeting, free form, etc.

 

I am all for removing tab targetting and all of the other burdensome, done-to-death, old systems like for example the hotbar, outlines etc.
I am simply sick of it. I don't want to see such elements in a game anymore. I want something fresh, something new. If this means that the devs have to come up with never before seen, innovative solutions to some problems then I am all for it. I want SotA to play like a unique and innovative game and not like a rehash of so many other games.

 

Yup that and tab. Most players would have all the enemy bars up as well as friendly bars. Tab became exceptionaly good in combat for swapping targets quickly and of cause to target the runner (mouse clicking whilst chasing someone should be left to the neanderthals)

 

So even more mouse-clicking?

Apparently you have played a lot of games, and I respect your desire for something new. In my case, I want a game that is playable for me, and I don't really care if the mechanics already exist in some other game.

I do want to keep an open mind, and will be glad to go through the exercise of targeting every enemy with the mouse rather than use the tab key for a day or to. I would appreciate it if the proponents of removing the tab targeting functionality can give me some tips on how I can target enemies without the tab key in the situation described above (in a crowded space completely surrounded by friends who block clicking on the foes). Also, how do I target a certain enemy when surrounded by a mob and the one I want to target keeps getting blocked by others. Because of the physical pain involved I can't afford a clicking orgy of multiple clicks to target a single enemy. Even one click is painful enough.

 

Line-of-sight would be the most ideal path. You shouldn't be able to shoot a fireball at a target that is in the back of the pack. Instead you would need to utilize line of sight and movement tactics. Again, you can't shoot a mob that's sitting in the back of a pack with a bow-and-arrow. You would first need to take down the front line. Unless of course we continue the trend of heat-seeking arrows, bolts, and spells with GPS targeting that can bend around walls an go through mountains.

-Padre

 

I would say line of sight goes without saying and should be implemented regardless of the targeting mechanism.

 

Excellent point, Kara !
When you're beset by a mob, having the ability to tab thru to find a specific target is invaluable. Like you said, there are many times when finding/clicking on a target is extremely difficult and having the ability to tab thru seems pretty essential to me too.

Beyond - apparently - not liking any of the current combat elements, would it be too much to ask what your alternatives would be?

I don't understand that at all. Of course you can - and should be able to - shoot a target in the back of the group.
It's a ranged weapon, emphasis on ranged. Same way with magery spells.
What does your response have to do with an alternative to tabbing in situations where the mob is grouped around you, making individual targeting difficult or impossible?

And to the people who wish to see tabbed targeting removed, I ask the following question:
How does MY ability to tab thru targets in any way affect you or your gameplay?

Don't want to tab thru targets - then don't.
Unless you can explain how my tabbing affects your gameplay, I see no reason for your wishing it removed for the rest of us. What is the basis for this position ?

 

I am not saying that I have a perfect solution but generally I am for a more realistic system. Either line of sight and you just hit what you see or some kind of "crosshair"-targeting with which you hit those enemies that are "in" the crosshair.

This may mean a bit more chaos but combat is chaos and if you are attacked and fight then you may hit others than the enemy you intend to hit.
Tab-targetting and focusing on certain enemies are features that take the realism out of a game and make it more "gamey".
I liked how it was done in Skyrim. You hit what is in range and in sight, simple as that. You have to aim manually if you want to shoot an arrow or a fireball.

 

You would use skill. The fact that your friends got in the way would simulate the challenge of combat with multiple people.

 

No, in the situation I described I would not use skill.

Since I am a mage I would spam AOE spells which for some strange reason wouldn't harm my friends.

If I were a melee warrior I would swing my sword or axe, secure in the knowledge that some enemy in front of me would be hit, but that the blade would go right through and not harm my friends.

If I were an archer, I would stand uselessly in the corner. Oddly enough, I would have enough elbow room to draw my bow without being jostled, but I would be unable to target anything at all.

 

I totally agree that the combat system should support friendly fire if it doesn't have tab targeting.

 

I am in complete agreement. I specifically mentioned projectile-esque abilities that shouldn't be able to target a mob that's standing three mobs behind the one in front of you. The immersion doesn't make sense, unless of course, your aiming for the mobs shoulder blade or some other dribble. However, debuffs should be tabbed. As, of course, a mage may want to debuff a target or leader mob in the rear of a group. But... shooting a fireball while targeting a mob in the back? How does that make sense unless your hitting everything else in between, which I'm not against at all. There just needs to be a basis for the immersion that this game and the devs are trying to accomplish.

 

My original post never states my opinion. I merely state that the systems don't make sense as they are now. Ranged weapon does not equal or equate to magical heat-seeking missle of doom. Unless of course, it's a spell. But, wood with a metal tip just doesn't make sense for immersion sake to be able to do that. With that said... please read my next statements...

If there are three mobs in front of you and You tab target a mob in the rear of that group.. how on earth are you hitting that target without hitting the stuff in front of you first? Now, if you could free target (crosshair) to aim at heads or body parts, then it makes sense and I agree with your assessment. I'm not for or against either system. The purpose of my original post was to state that the devs need to tighten up on what the heck they are doing with this combat system. As I stated previously, it's a hodge podge or in another term, a dump cake of systems that are not cohesive.

 

Although I am pro implementing LoS, ie you can't shoot around corners and through objects..........I am very anti moving away from a tab targeting system. The card combat system has had limit appeal outside the 'close community' and even within that are mixed feelings......throw in manual targeting and the game is likely to appeal to even less. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling on the matter.

 

They just need to pick a logical direction for the theme of the game and stick with it or at least share their thoughts with us. I mean, I the "Free form" combat came out of left field. I thought they were focusing on making the card combat more intuitive and in-line with the immersion of the game? It's just very confusing and there seems to be a lack of direction in the combat department on this game.

 

I agree with this...but I'm not against line of sight targeting either.

I think the SOTA devs need to pick a lane. Is this going to be a tab target easy combat system that doesn't require a lot of movement? Or is it going to be the opposite of that? I don't believe the combat system can be all things at once and I think that's partly why it's so bad right now.

If someone shoots a flame arrow at me and it goes through walls and only requires tab targeting to aim...ok fine, but let's not mix that with a sword system that requires line of sight and timed targeting. In addition, lets start using turn based elements so latency doesn't matter. We have a large hodgepodge of mechanics that don't really go well together at the moment.

 

I didn't want to give the impression that I am in favor of friendly fire, because I'm not - at least not as a mandatory mechanic. I have no objection to there being an option to activate susceptibility to friendly fire both on the giving and receiving end, but it is not something that I would activate. Likewise, I have no objection to other players disabling their ability to tab through targets as long as I retain that capability.

 

I have no problem with combat a la carte mechanics until we get into PVP. At that point, it's a horrible idea for obvious reasons.