Organizing the first player-run city with a crafting and trading theme

Discussion in 'Player Owned Towns' started by Jatvardur, Jun 5, 2014.

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  1. Biblik

    Biblik Avatar

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    Jat it is not you I am pointing out just the general philosophy that investing in something with others carries risks when they are no guarantees.
     
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  2. Jatvardur

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    Fair enough. It is a good point. :) The task is easier if the town owner is active or in charge of a big guild. Obviously, someone like Winfield has the benefit of an active leader of a successful town governer for over a decade.


    Tried creating a metropolis layout. Decided to split up the row lots a bit more.

    [​IMG]

    Includes full allocation of 139 village lot equivalents.

    124 Row
    52 Village
    12 Town
    8 City


    Is fun to create layouts but I'd like greater clarity of what can be achieved in order to know what the restrictions are. Issues like water lots and city walls would make a big difference.
     
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  3. Gau2

    Gau2 Avatar

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    Jat, I really like the row house distribution in this one much more. I could envision different "districts" developing in such a city where similarly themed merchants could lean toward having their shops. And I think the consumer could learn all very quickly. I also get a feeling that those 2 central city lots were for city buildings... I like that.

    As you eluded to though, we really need to know from the dev peeps what will be allowed in customization and what will not.

    In that old land of UO it never ceased to amaze me how one city always dominated in importance and main activity... At least with player cities there can be people with vested interests in them. Those damn NPC's never seem to have enough ambition for my liking. I really started to wonder why NPC cities exist. Of course there is some need for towns and such and NPC vendors that buy your wares initially, but I wonder if the big cities should ever be NPC! I don't know if the devs have ever dared think such thoughts though... But when you have RG/LB suggesting at times that all goods should be player made, I wonder if he ever considered the possibility if ALL cities, or big cities could be similar. Otherwise we could end up with relatively big towns with zero action like a vast majority of the lands of old. Let's face it, a city that has few or no people isn't a city...it is an archaeological site!

    Brian
     
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  4. Gau2

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    Jat, I wanted to suggest an alternate placement of the big imposing government buildings. I like the thought of people walking between them entering town ;-) I can also envision that paved area in front of the buildings being surrounded by trees and statues. Now I want to go to that city ;-)

    Brian

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Biblik

    Biblik Avatar

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    I added the Town Designer onto sotaexchange.com so feel free to sign up and give it a shot if you feel like it. The map will be able to be edited by anyone that signs up and loads it up for now but there are only a handful of users. Let me know if you want me to give it a secret Id after you create it to test with.
     
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  6. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    Had forgotten that I had read this but not replied. Keep the ideas coming!

    Different districts could also allow for different themes within the same city: an example is different housing styles, like a rustic area or a viking area.

    The one thing about all the buildings is that they have to be placed by people. City lots are expensive and I certainly wouldn't be able to place two. I like the idea of them being "government" buildings, but I wonder if the NPC buildings could do that. I suspect Port will design a town hall building (plus associated in-game items) which will have the right aesthetic and probably the right mechanics too. If not, they should. :p

    Currently working on town charter stuff and will propose the mechanics of a city council. Also in the process of cleaning up the first post.



    I don't think I'm smart enough to figure this out. :p I created an empty grassy town but don't know how to place anything. Help!
     
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  7. Jatvardur

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    Have spent many hours today thinking about player towns and how they will work. I've started to draft a charter too. My initial thoughts have concerend the concept of rights and privileges, and consequently ownership. In the text below I've tried to write in a way that I expect the text to appear in a town charter, it is mostly facts (guessing) with some worked examples and commentary (in blue text).

    This is written in such a way to convey the risks and obvious 'problems'. While we hope that everything run smoothly and that certain clauses are never executed they are there to protect the town.

    Innate properties of the town charter

    • This town charter grants privileges at the behest of the Town Owner with proper regards to the rules of the game and any ruling by staff of Portalarium.
      • privileges, not rights.
    • This town charter is not legally binding or enforceable in any court of law.
    • Lot ownership is granted on the basis that it is a privilege and is not a legally defensible right in any court of law.

    Town Ownership

    • The Town Owner has an implied ownership (hereafter “ownership”) of the town as granted by Portalarium. There is no legal ownership of a town.
    • Portalarium could cancel ownership at any point.
    • If the game ceases to exist then the town will also case to exist.
    Shared Ownership (i.e. shareholders)
    • Part-ownership will be in-perpetuity, unless otherwise agreed upon, or until the Town Owner sells their stake or is removed by Portalarium.
    • A shareholder, also called a part-owner, will own a share of the town on an apportioned basis. This will be agreed with the Town Owner. Ownership in the town does not grant access to any lots unless agreed with the Town Owner.
      • e.g. 10% of the total pledge could grant 10% ownership of the town.
      • If agreed upon a 10% pledge (e.g. $300 of a $3000 pledge) may grant 15% part-ownership of the town.
      • If agreed upon a 10% pledge may also grant 10% of the available lot space.
    • A player-town may have shared ownership. The majority owner has the greatest percentage of ownership and is the “Town Owner”.
    • Change in shareholders (part-owners)
      • A part-owner may sell their stake at any time. It is their responsibility to find a buyer. A transaction can take place without the Town Owner’s consent.
        • Although life is easier when folks get along.
    • Change of ownership (“town owner”)
      • A town owner may at any time sell the town without prior consent of backers.
        • In reality I don’t suspect this will be the case, and will doubtlessly cause upset. I add it because there is nothing to prevent it without intervention from Portalarium. It would be unwise for a new owner not to have their interests aligned with the town: such a large purchase could be destroyed if folks leave.
        • There is no guarantee that the privileges instilled by one Town Owner will be acknowledged by the new Town Owner.
        • In such a situation it would make sense for the old owner, new owner and part-owners to discuss a right of succession. It may also make sense for the sale of the town to be for complete ownership. Thereby part-owners are bought out completely and receive money to the value of their apportioned ownership.
        • If a player purchases 10% for $300 then they have to understand that they purchased 10% of the town, not $300 in the city. If the price of the sale is greater than the initial purchase price then the 10% ownership will actually be of greater value. If the sale price is double the initial price then 10% would be worth $600 at the time of the sale.
        • Conversely, should the price decrease then 10% ownership would be valued at a lower number.
    • Inactivity
      • There is no penalty for inactive owners
          • ownership is not lost by X date, although see next clause.
      • If a player is inactive their ownership is risk. Key decisions could be made that affect their privileges or access rights. A sale of the town may happen, to which no recourse may be offered under the new owner.

    Lot Ownership
    Lot ownership is a privilege granted to a player by the Town Owner on behalf of Portalarium. Access to a lot is controlled by the Town Owner via in-game keys. The transaction of a key to a player is made at the discretion of the Town Owner.
    • Size
      • The size of a lot is agreed upon with the Town Owner. There is no requirement for an exchange of money (in-game, or out-of-game) to take place.
        • Monetary amount will be agreed upon with the Town Owner.
        • Duration of ownership will be agreed upon with the Town Owner. Any rulings made by Portalarium will take precedence over any agreement made between a Town Owner and a lot purchaser.
    • Cost
      • The cost of ownership will be agreed upon with the Town Owner
        • The reality is that the cost of ownership will likely scale with the lot city, and possibly location.
    • Inactivity
      • Game rules take precedence where inactivity of lot ownership is concerned.
      • An inactive lot owner may be granted a grace period of which the inactive lot is not immediately taken up by a new player. Such a term should be agreed upon with the Town Owner.
      • If there are empty lots when an inactive citizen returns they will be offered one of the empty lots of corresponding size.
        • inactive village-lot citizen will be offered an inactive village-lot if it exists, or other lot at the discretion of the Town Owner.
      • If there are no free lots then a returning inactive citizen will be on a priority waiting list.

    -----------------------------
    edit:

    Town Council

    [updated thinking]

    There will be a town council but the exact details are to be decided upon. I will outline the options below then state my preference.
    1. I run the entire town myself
    2. I appoint a town council to run the city with me / on my behalf.
    3. I create a council which is a hybrid of appointed councils and town elected members.
    4. a fully elected town council to handle all in-game matters.

    I'm leaning towards the Paxlair model which is somewhere between 3 & 4.
    • I would be the Governor and handle a lot of out-of-character / out-of-game stuff. I will ensure that decisions made by the council are carried out.
    • Elected Mayor (although in the first 6 months I expect to appoint someone while the town is established). The Mayor runs the town from an in-character / in-game perspective. Organizes the council meetings and has the ability to pass in-game laws.
    • Elected council to support the mayor. I will likely appoint for the first council who will hold office for the first 6 months, then there-after elections will be held every 6 months.
      • I wouldn't necessarily require the town council to have to make a financial contribution.
      • I want people who are motivated to be part of the town council and will carry out a good job.
     
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  8. rild

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    Jat this is great stuff! Looking forward to seeing these foundational player towns develop :)
     
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  9. Jatvardur

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    Feel free to add ideas or comments. I've got a few more things I've been working on today.

    Also going to organize something for R7.
     
  10. Lord Gorynych

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    I'm ready to participate. Will gladly put there my Lord's secondary village lot with a couple of crafting tables and my tax-free vendor.
    Won't mind donating :)

    BTW, will it be City or Megapolis ?
     
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  11. Jatvardur

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    Great, welcome on board. I always thought a metropolis was too small, a megapolis sounds about right. :cool: Leaning towards Metropolis, sounds like it would be fun.
     
  12. Biblik

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    Sorry about that - you need to have registered and logged in (basically just create a quick account through registration) and then you will see a 'Toggle Editing' button at the top of each map's overview. If you click toggle editing you can change the tiles by clicking on them to scroll through the types. I am working on making it a bit more user friendly so any feedback would be appreciated.
     
  13. Lord Gorynych

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    Ok. Just send me PM when everybody is ready. I'd reserve a Town, Village and Row lots somewhere not far away from the town hall :)

    It would be a good idea to call all high-tier pledge holders to place their secondary tax-free Village and Row lots in this Megapolis. Thus, we will unite all the loyal backers in one place.
    Many of us would be glad to donate in order to raise necessary $5K.

    BTW, I think we should put all three town squares in one central area near townhall so we can find all the vendors in one place.
     
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  14. Duke Lorimus

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    I Think I might also be interested in participating in this idea Jatvardur.
     
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  15. Jatvardur

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    Ah, I see. Registered and testing. City shape is a bit weird, very long / narrow. Is there a way to place designated square types, having to click through the various types is a bit slow.

    Good start though.
     
  16. Biblik

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    One thing to keep in mind would be that reserving lot sizes up front with a KS acct or something might be a good way to do it as well. I am working on some stuff for the town designer to help reserve lots and place value on them as well just to see how that is received but here is an example of a town layout, based on the upper left quadrant in the map Jav made -

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Jatvardur

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    Sweet! We'll get something figure out for you. Things won't be 'ready' until game launch ;-) but purchase is somewhere in the not-so-distant future (tm).

    Yeah, that's part of my thinking. Players should place their main lot wherever they want, if they do that here in "Jat town" that's cool but if they'd rather be in Brittany (or whatever) that's also cool. I'd greatly welcome all second / third homes. There are benefits in players spreading their homes across the lands.

    Small amounts of money from many players makes the job easier.


    This is a fair point. It depends what we do with NPC buildings. I see them as great to have but I don't expect that the main town vendors will be in the NPC buildings but in the PC buildings. That would be desirable but we need to feel our way through this until details become clearer. Perhaps this will come up in testing in a later pre-alpha.
     
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  18. Biblik

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    If you load up the town designer and load map number 5 you can see a sample city layout that I started working on to show a live example of the map you drew - one thing to keep in mind is that the map is of the 'City' size and the layout is like 240 x 260 or something close to that so almost square. You can notice that there seems to be a discrepancy between the number of lots that can fit inside the town sizes they posted. Those sizes do not leave any room for roads or fields or anything, as far as I can tell so far.
     
  19. Jatvardur

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    Welcome on board. Feel free to throw ideas into the mix. At the moment I'm just keeping the ideas in this thread, but may use my guild forum if there is a desire to do so.
     
  20. Jatvardur

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    I saw you pics above too. Looks good. Although the city map doesn't look so square to me. Strange!
     
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