Overland map feedback

Ok, here are a few observations as I logged in and played through about 30 mins or so. If we are to have an overland map, I do believe we're in the right direction with it if we are to have it at all and I don't see anything that is really game breaking for me in my opinion...

 

Great video, AvatarAcid! A few comments based on what I saw:

- I agree, the light radius of the torch (or whatever light source) can be increased, perhaps even doubled
- I didn't feel the night time was too dark to the point of being unplayable, and it felt appropriate, but I'll do some of my own playing in R18 to assess
- The terrain features, especially the road, is not distinct enough to allow for proper navigation. I can see how some other players have complained about this. If they are truly well traveled roads, especially paved ones, it should be clearly distinct yet it doesn't appear to be
- Furthermore, the avatar in the overworld is a giant and this can be problematic for speed of travel due to the tiny roads. It's like having to walk a tight rope to maintain a fast speed and any slight deviation causes you to slow down due to being off-road. While I think they should disable this nonsense of varying travel speed like that (more on this below), if they continue with it, they should allow for wider tolerances due to this giant avatar problem.
- The sunrise did not seem to properly reflect in the lighting of the overworld, as it remained too dark. It just seemed that when you panned the camera up to see the approaching sunrise, the skybox was 1000x brighter than the ground and that didn't feel right.
- The skybox should definitely get a resolution bump, like 10x...it was really bad.
- The celestial objects seem to be placeholder...I hope. Plus, I wonder if they are simulating their motions correctly....perhaps a timelapse video is needed

Ok, now regarding map travel speed....lots of threads on this. But my general sentiment is that unless the terrain requires specialized gear to travel on, the travel speed should not fluctuate / change. If the actual scene itself that you play in also slows you down, then the overworld area for that scene should also slow you down. Currently, none of that exists and I can only see that applying to very murky swamp areas and snow passes that may require specialized gear (snow shoes, swamp boots, etc). But again, those scenes don't require specialized travel gear and don't slow you down. So if there is no intention to do so within the scene, then the overworld travel speed for those areas should also not slow you down.

 

I don't understand the rotation speed of the planets. Let's assume that some are inhabited, then the day-night-cycle on those worlds must be horrible. Every second it gets day then night...

 

Thanks smack That is pretty much everything I was thinking but was too lazy to type up! haha

 

- It would be great if we could carry lanterns and not just torches, and they would have a difference in brightness or light radius. I'm also eagerly waiting for Moon magic skills to be able to be used on the overland map. Vanish, Shadow Form, and, of course, Night Vision. Night Vision would be useful for overland travel for those concerned about the visibility of everything. Personally, I don't think the visibility of the road with a torch is a big problem in most areas; although some areas are better than others. Though you can't see that far ahead, you can see a little bit of road, so you can tell where its bending and follow the road as it bends.

- Its actually pretty fun seeing other players with their torches in the dark and then using them to guide your path. If we ever get the ability to set up camp in the game, campfires would serve the same purpose, too. Some have also suggested that every settlement be lighted at night, like we have on the Hidden Vale. Maybe. Though, I feel a bit of realism here might be fun, too. Settlements would be lit for a certain period in the dark, and then the lights could go off by midnight; giving you a chance to reach some settlement if you don't have a torch with you. Plus, places like the Obsidian Keep, which are currently lighted, wouldn't be.

- The bigger problem with road visibility I think is under early Dawn lighting conditions, where everything feels very high contrast, and in addition to that, the roads can be heavily overcast with shadows from mountains, cliffs, and trees. There are some roads where this is a big problem and the road visibility gets lost in the shadows. Realistically, during dawn, you would expect everything to be clearly visible, but its not always the case.

- On the other hand, shadows could be a good means by which the visibility of things in a forest remain obscured; so for instance, if you're traveling through a forest, you might not see a roving encounter -- say, a bandit group moving between the trees, who is under the cast of the trees' shadows. On the other hand, its a bit uneven, because its different based on the time of the day, and making the forests feel denser might help a bit and serve other purposes.

- I've suggested that as far as pacing changes go, they should figure out something that feels natural, and once the pacing feels natural I think there'll be far less complaints. So, for instance, if you'd walk through trees or bushes, it would naturally slow down your pace, as it should also slow down your pace whenever you walk through a bush in a scene. When you'd walk up a heavy slope it would naturally slow down your pace. When something looks like marsh water, and walking through it sinks your body a bit, like it would inside a scene, you'd feel it would naturally slow down your pace and slowing you down through it would feel natural. The problem in the game I think is there are no natural cues why you're slowing down; it can feel completely random at times. That's what's frustrating. If it feels less random, it'll feel less artificial, and less frustrating.

- Some coasted movement around blocked areas might also help; similar to how, in a scene, walking into a tree will coast you around the tree. On the map, this would mean around shores, rivers, and mountainsides, so for instance, moving in the direction where there's a bridge, will coast your avatar towards where the bridge is instead of having, him stupidly move forward where he can't move forward until you figure out you can't do that.

- Coasted movement around trees could also work, as well as movement through trees, but slowed movement through trees. I remember, in the first iterations of the map, going through trees actually blocked you, so you became stuck. Then, they changed it so that you could move through trees, though at the same pace as you moved everywhere else. But the point should be, as noted above, trees shouldn't block you or cause you frustration, but they should slow you down. Someone could choose to circumnavigate all the trees, or bump into them and have the game slow them down. But, on the other hand, moving through an open clearing in the forest shouldn't slow you down the same as moving through wooded areas -- that would feel unnatural -- and that's the problem IMO.

- I also suggested a long time ago, when they changed the movement controls on the map, that they could have a function to lock movement to the roads. I don't know whether anyone thinks that's still a good idea or whether the implementation would be too clunky.

- My limited experience being at beaches at evening and twilight hours is there's a lot of gleam on the waves, to the extent that the ocean is more visible than everything else around it. Especially when the sky turns amber from the sunrise or sunset, and the ocean gleam picks up an orangish hue. In the game, by the time the sky turns orange, the sea is completely black. I've seen the sun glimmer on the sea on the map, though I haven't noticed its effects during sunset, and I haven't noticed whether Daedalus also casts a shine on the sea. But from memory, the last time I was at the beach, even when the moon was out, the waves seemed to be absorbing light from the moon, so that I could see the crabs beneath the waves, even when everything else around was dark. Not sure why that was or whether that is the norm. Paying more visual attention to the ocean might help the feel of time changes some. Though I hope eventually, they also get some more advanced graphics Fx on the ocean, and we can see waves coming in and crashing against the shore, especially the rocky areas.

- When weather comes into the game, I look forward to seeing lighting temporarily light up the overland map at night. Hearing the claps of thunder will also be cool. Btw, fun fact, "lightning" used to be spelled "lightening", because it lightened up the sky.

 

I just looked at some older screenshots and the lighting on the overland map before R18 was better imho. Much more vibrant and warmer colors.

 

Overland is clearly in such a rough shape is should not be considered playable. So many elements are missing as well as completion of the whole world... It's really really barren right now.
The GUI is terrible for the map, I find literally zero though has been put into that (intentional I hope).. Many people have put forward fantastic design sketches but I don't think anybody knows what Portalarium thinks because they never comment on design things on the forums.
IMHO they should go CRAZY with the UI (hotbars specifically) in conjunction with the new celestial elements as well as more stuff relating to parties, guilds, messaging and various roleplaying elements. Sometimes I really just want to have some non-action things occurring such as the chance to use skills to avoid a encounter, or being able to persuade unintelligent enemies you are not a enemy..

I find that non of the game stats have any intended use while travelling, there is obviously no eating required in game or any other invented travelling 'expenses', nor paid travel nor other fluff like being able to have a quick option to go to the tavern or social hub in the area..

As far as encounters levels they are as bad as they can get, the level design has been consitantly boring and uninspired. They really should put the community IN CHARGE of level designs so that more greater attention to choosing layouts/designs which are more appropriate from the get go.

 

Everytime my attention comes to the title of this thread, I'm having a deja-vu... they've changed the matrix again Neo...

 

My advice to Portalarium right now for the direction of the map: Implement a full 2d version based on this style of map+layers


What would be required make this happen:
- movement controlled from this perspective
- updates to world events
- basic relevant data available to be represented as layers
- traveling specifics such as food costs
- traveling via alternate method, to save costs. this is coach travel or similar
- not to show all people on the map that are not relevant (eg non-encounter solo players roaming)
- (optional) traveling skills
- (optional) messaging-like communication features

I think it could work.

Developers could continue to develop the current 3d version (as the 2d version is based on it) as a alternative and the modes could be freely chosen.

 

I don't really either but it sounds like Richard has a plan (re: R18postmorten)

 

This has the very strong appearance of feature creep...

 

the very strong appearance of... wow that is some... just wow

 

People should watch the old Kickstarter videos to know what people here pledged for and what SotA is and what role the overland map plays in the game:



Very interesting is this video with Warren Spector as in it Richard clearly says what SotA is: "What we hope to do ist create a story-driven solo-player experience that harkens back to Ultima 4 to Ultima 7 that also has the ability to play online with an opt-in or opt-out method as to how multiplayer you want it to be."