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People unable to engage in emote sidequests 'by design' is a bad design.

Discussion in 'Release 50 Feedback Forum' started by Jarikith, Jan 26, 2018.

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  1. Jarikith

    Jarikith Avatar

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    So over in the bug forum for this release is the following thread all about how folks who have completed the Love quest line cannot receive the I Heart You emote:

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...each-the-i-love-you-emote.108759/#post-935172

    The answer these people have been given is 'it's working as it's designed to,' and thus it needs to be submitted as feedback since that makes it not really a bug. So here is a feedback thread about this particular design, bug or not, is a really bad design.

    One, this design implementation where Khasi becomes unresponsive to all discussions and just parrots out the same few lines to you is locking people out of content introduced after the fact. That's bad designing.

    Two, Khasi goes from a dynamic character that helps make the world have more depth, by at least being someone you can engage in conversation with, into a static cardboard standee, breaking the depth of former immersion she had. Bad design.

    Three, the player talking to Khasi after completing the love quest, knowing that she has more to give, is left with the feeling of Khasi being the type to have used you for what she wanted and then kicking you to the curb after she's done with you. 'Oh you completed my quest, good, now get out, no heart for you!' Bad design.

    Please reconsider how these major quest givers are handled after you do the thing they want you to do, in light of the fact that A) you keep giving them more things to after people have finished with their quests that they can no longer access and B) it just makes these characters feel both lifeless and callous towards the very people that have previously assisted them with their goals when all they can do after the fact is repeat the same bland lines and are no longer interactive to the point of locking people out of content.
     
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  2. Margaritte

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    A thousand fake internet points for, you @Jarikith! I've been trying to come up with a way to politely state my feelings on this issue, and you nailed it for me, so thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  3. Brazen Spirituality

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    It does not appear to be reasonable to simply say "this is designed intentionally"... You said the expectation is that we should hang onto our quest reset. What about when later on another emote you all decide to add to a questline comes up in May.. or next fall..? When is the right time, when is it "safe" to use that one reset? And what about those who have already used their one and only reset? (( And as I understand it, the quest reset does not completely reset everything in the journal and one never knows what quest points they are supposed to do, or if they missed a step, since the quest pointers are reset but the journal entries do not match that. So why use the quest reset in the first place, even to get a gorked questline to reset, let alone to get some emotes one missed because they did not exist when they were doing that portion of a questline, if it functions poorly)) Also, why should ANY quest giving NPC cease to be in any way dynamic, and simply say "Yep, you did what I so desperately needed you to do... so now I would like you to "Go away kid, you're bothering me!"" This game is supposed to be immersive... and that sort of consistent result from NPC's is problematic, at least for me, in that way too. Then there is simple fairness. Why should any player have to reset all of their quests just to get an emote or two or even fix one borked questline? Maybe they have worked really hard to get half way thru some portions of quest lines because they do not scour the forums or get towed behind higher level guildmates to knock them out in short order? Some of us do it the old-fashioned way, and it is time-consuming, and some of us even have lives and do not have hundreds of hours to dedicate to the quests, to have to restart ALL of them for the benefit of a few rewards or to fix a glitched quest.

    Yes, I have specific suggestions, but in my experience suggesting corrections to issues is not well received, so let me just say that I believe that SOTA, as a Richard Garriot Portalarium production, and our many frustrated players, deserve better.
     
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  4. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Not sure if this sounds like bad design, or lazy execution.

    Bad design would still have some logical reason or purpose to the design, which could be given in response to a question about it.

    Completionist players should be allowed to collect "all the things" and that includes emotes. They've put in the time to test this game and shouldn't be penalized because somebody else doesn't wanna go back and rewrite some code.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  5. Albus

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    I'd agree with OP on bad design here, no way should players be locked out of an emote. Makes no sense, will frustrate and anger any player who cares about emotes and gets locked out, it benefits no one. Horrible cost-benefit ratio to that particular design ;)
     
  6. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Though it's not described that way, when I did the quest reset my journal was completely reset to blank and ALL quest items removed from Jaan's inventory. It was NOT just the main questlines. So be forewarned!
     
  7. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    it's bad design whether there are emotes on the line or not. you don't have characters just... stop being people.
     
  8. Barugon

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    Wow! I'm glad that I saved my quest reset.
     
  9. Sher Shadowleaf

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    I for one will probably live without the emotes...even though I love emotes. Even though I have a reset still, I refuse to do all these quests again.

    Just because I can't /iheartyou, doesn't mean I don't love you all. I'm /iheartyou-ing on the inside.
     
  10. Margaritte

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    I feel like playtesters are being punished by this mechanic, to be honest. We've always been encouraged to do the unfinished/broken quests, find the bugs, give feedback, all that good stuff. And I have, for years, now. I really dig the emotes in this game, and I have a ton of fun trying to "catch em all". But when it comes to this mechanic, well now I can't have the cool thing (three cool things and counting, in fact) I want *because* I tested quests early, and that seems wrong. If it's too late to change this, can we at least have other, harder to find folks who can also give these emotes, or can they be made teachable? I'm not using my quest reset until someone finally says "okay, it's done, they are all right now", because after all this testing, I really am looking forward to seeing the game we all helped shape in its final state.
     
  11. Solazur

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    Awwww, we <3 you back Sher

    As for myself, I'm glad I not only saved my reset... I'm glad I just have that part of the game kinda on hold for myself. I really appreciate all of those who have put in time, sweat, tears and maybe even a little blood along the way to test the questlines.

    I just had to remember that "Know Thyself" admonition.. (opinions vary... atm I'm going with that definition) and recognize what I do and don't have the temperment for. I'm gonna pretty much sit this out till sometime down the road.. like 6-12 month post launch.

    As to the OP though...I can't imagine the devs not figuring out a workaround on this and...not make the same error again.
     
  12. EclipseMaiden

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    I WANT THE I <3 YOU EMOTE! and i get punished for finishing the love quest line.... WHERE IS THE LOVE?!?!?! pun intended.
     
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  13. smack

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    I'd have to say it's a bit of both in lieu of any explanation as to why it's designed like that.

    I mean, I understand with other NPCs that your malicious actions or their distress causes them to not want to respond to you in part or in whole. But this character has no reason or previous behavior or action would cause her to just "shut down" like this. It's illogical and not internally consistent. And it's all made worse due to the emote issue.

    Yikes...that really sucks. I hope they fix this for you in some way besides forcing you to use your quest reset to solve a problem they caused. At the very least, it seems trivial for them to run a query to see who's completed the quest and just grant them the emote.

    A better fix would be to address this in-game and do some checks to see if you've 1) completed the quest and 2) have the emote and simply just give it to you when you talk to her, even if she spams the same gibberish repeatedly. Sort of like a catch all rewards check that can be reused on other NPCs too.

    I guess I'll save my quest reset until like...Release 100.
     
  14. Jaanelle DeJure

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    I would guess it's just a flag in the player file. Could be fixed for everyone with a script that checks for virtue score if that's the issue. Or maybe start opening up individual support tickets.

    Though I will say... If it has been a long time since you've done the quests, they ARE much more interesting now and you would be missing out on a lot of lore and other tidbits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  15. Jarikith

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    I think the explanation is lazy implementation leading to bad design as in, 'Yeaaah.. it'd be a lot of work to rewrite all the NPC dialog here for if you've finished the quest and have it flip between the two... soooo.. how about just a few lines replacing their entire personality once you're done! Sound good? Great!';)
     
  16. Black Tortoise

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    Ill be saving mine for many more months ;-)
     
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  17. Jaanelle DeJure

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    In lieu of a proper justification, that seems a likely scenario.
     
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  18. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    Strongly believe these emotes be made teachable as well as able to be learned from the NPC at any point, or a different NPC entirely - locking emotes to NPCs that are quest dynamic is really lame :(
     
  19. Tila Tenderfoot

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    Agreed!
     
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  20. Verit

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    This is a lot of hate from people that want a love emote. :oops:
    This thread is very negative and needlessly bashes the devs. They are a small team making a huge game. I don't think any one there is being lazy.
    Could we not have just asked them to correct this without all the flames?

    Devs, I completed the Khasi quest and can no longer learn the emote.
    Can you please allow the people who completed the quests to still receive the emote?
    On another note, it seems that npc in general are not very grateful once their quests are completed. Could you consider making them more friendly and appreciative? Thanks, Avatar
     
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