Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Draco, Mar 28, 2018.
I'll consider it confirmed once the package is delivered. Until then....well...their track record for keeping dates speaks for itself.
I just feel like it will be cool to get a modern Ultima III map And I seem to have lost all my U4 era Ankhs... again.... so a new one will be cool.
No later than June 28th.
If only they had known this was coming and had time to prepare. I mean, 5 years is just NOT ENOUGH TIME PEOPLE!!! Be patient.
This is pathetic. For years they told us, promised us, assured us the rewards were shipping "at launch". Is Honesty no longer a virtue?
Since you felt comfortable throwing around the word "pathetic", I'm going to respond to this directly by using the word "unreasonable" to describe your sentiments...for several reasons:
Firstly, even if we had TWENTY years worth of "time to prepare", creating physical goods based on digital content means that the digital content needs to be FINISHED before physical goods can be produced...otherwise the physical goods don't reflect the latest digital content... A reasonable individual understands this, and recognizes the fact that this means, at best, that physical goods can only get finished being produced AFTER the "content complete" date... Until just recently, in the computer-gaming industry (which many of us here have been in for nearly a quarter of a century), "launch" referred to the moment WHEN all physical copies of the game were already complete and hit the shelves in stores where you could actually buy them...(the digital content having already been essentially complete for, perhaps, months)... These days, you folks are lucky enough that "launch" gets to mean merely receiving what is essentially our full Episode 1 content for a game you've already HAD the opportunity to experience to some degree for YEARS... You may not personally appreciate any of that, but that simply doesn't change the fact that the remaining "physical" part of it (collector's items and such), STILL needed to wait for most of the digital content to get finished before many of those physical goods could even get designed... Why?... Well, for one reason (other than what I already mentioned above)...as we made incredibly clear throughout this entire process, we're a small team... Money, resources, and therefore our number of employees is LIMITED, and our VERY first priority was getting the game finished for you...a process that I have been intimately involved in... We don't HAVE an entire "creative services department" just waiting in the wings to create these physical goods... What we do have are folks like myself who had to finish our tasks related to building the game itself for you BEFORE we could then turn around and start taking those finished digital assets and creating what could eventually become physical product... What that means is, simply put,..."at launch" refers to "the time-frame when launch happens", which happens to be these several months just prior to and after launch, when we actually have the chance to get this stuff designed and made... No amount of "time to prepare" changes any of that...nor does "time to prepare" make up for any of the various manufacturer delays that inevitably arise beyond our control....
Secondly, trying to make ANY deadline on a project, and then missing it due to the typical circumstances and events that arise naturally from a creative process, has NOTHING to do with a failure of HONESTY... Again, having been a part of the computer gaming industry for a quarter of a century, I can tell you first-hand that our team, from top to bottom, has demonstrated a degree of open communication and ESPECIALLY HONESTY when it comes to our progress and our delays (due to the kinds of circumstances mentioned above) greater than I have EVER seen in the industry as a whole... ...EVER... As such, questioning our honor by questioning our honesty in a case such as the mere delays concerning these physical goods seems incredibly petty and self-absorbed to me... Either you haven't been listening as I've described the process from the moment that it even COULD begin until now,...or you don't care... Either way, I have no interest in catering to that kind of attitude...especially since it feels like it's being presented merely to foment discord... If we are comfortable hurling around colorful descriptors here, then in my humble opinion, this it what feels the most "pathetic" to me...
Getting a bit tense in here!
Yes, unfortunately so, in this particular case... Offhanded comments and insults thrown around like the one Meniketti just tossed out, ESPECIALLY after the time and effort I've spent sharing the progress of these goods from start to near-finish...displeases me greatly... Folks having concerns and voicing displeasure through cordial communication is one thing... Flippant disregard and disrespect is another... It is simply not tolerable to me...
Unfortunately, that seems to be the way of the internet these days. Keep up the good work from one Scott to another!
Not taking any sides here, but I also thought ship date was coordinated with "launch". I also could careless about the physical rewards, I invested for the digital ones.
My personal opinion: If it would have shipped on time but not reflected the actual in game content people would have been way less happy (I certainly would not have liked another Ultima 8 like map). This was the right way to go. Don't let some drama queens drag you down
Considering the backer waited 5 years, I don't think its unreasonable to have expectations of the shipping of the physical items.
However name-calling on both sides its certainly uncalled for from them, and ports response.
Thanks for the reply.
GET 'IM, SCOTTIE!!!
This made my day. Thank you.
@Scottie A lot of us appreciate your efforts.
Yes we do and the entire teams efforts
I really like how Scottie adopted my writing STYLE
Count me in @Scottie
His expectations were not what was unreasonable, with the single (but quite broad) exception that those expectations should have been adapting to the situation based on the most current information we have been honestly providing all along, throughout the entire process...as opposed to rigidly maintaining expectations of a growing and living product based only on what was said initially...
As you said, what was unreasonable was his conclusion that, because of his rigid, un-adaptive expectations, he should then jump to the conclusion that we at Portalarium have been both dishonest and pathetic... That dishonorable offense required immediate response not from Portalarium,...but from me personally...with the words "petty and self-absorbed" being my most gentle descriptors of what his attitude felt like... I reserve that right not only as a contractor, but as a respectable gentleman... Though his descent to this level does not excuse my need to dive down to that same level to lift it back up again, I require no excuse in this particular case... Any justification falls well within the boundaries of appropriate discipline... I do not give warnings when dealing with such behavior...
As for the rest of you, forgive any shock you may have felt at my response. I am normally one of the most patient and giving of individuals when it comes to those who are concerned over our progress, and who are willing to display that concern or unhappiness in reasonable, cordial ways... However, in cases where either the honor or honesty of my Portalarium family is impugned in the way it happened here, I have neither patience nor respect to give...
I'm am perfectly content if Meniketti wishes to continue expressing concern and unhappiness on these forums, but only in a respectful manner... The method he used earlier must never be employed again...
Scottie, after meeting you in person last year and seeing for myself the incredibly small and hugely talented team that has pulled off this amazing game in five years on a shoestring, I can attest that you do have a patient demeanor. I am very sorry that someone saw fit to insult you and the team in such a way. It is uncalled for.
As for me, I shall patiently wait for my goodies and reschedule my date with Framemakers for getting everything framed.
Your loyal fan,
Worry not.... There are no "sides" here, I promise... It's totally okay that you thought the ship date of the boxes was coordinated with the "launch"... And believe me, when those who said originally we were going to ship all the physical goods at launch, I'm sure they really intended to make that happen... But since that time the reality of the situation slapped that dreamy idealism right in the face... Remember, for those who originally may have said that, "launching" and "shipping" the game was the same event...because you were ALWAYS dealing with boxed goods, and what it took to make them... Plus, those folks were working for companies, like Origin and EA, who had entire teams of folks just waiting in the wings to produce all this stuff... Heck,...the old Creative Services team may very well have had 80% of the stuff already in a state of "pseudo-completion", and were champing at the bit because we hadn't finished all the game content yet for them to base the remaining 20% of the stuff on...
That's simply not the way of our project... It's a whole different kind of development cycle, and we are all still learning about its limitations and constraints... We're doing the best we can here,...we really are... And whereas we feel incredibly grateful and lucky when people are able to acknowledge that, we understand when they don't... However what Meniketti did was the exact opposite of that, and was a quintessential spit in our collective faces... It was thoroughly mean-spirited... I simply don't tolerate that kind of thing... Hence, my swift and sharp response... In truth, its possible even Portalarium may not appreciate my response, but that's something that I'm willing to deal with... Regardless, there are certain behaviors I'm not willing to accept...
It's like those people who are surprised there is no wipe on launch... UTSE.
The portalarium team are among the only devs that list step by step what they intend to do and how it ends up after the fact, and what could not be done as well (humility). If a change is announced and then at that moment before the fact you are angry, then we understand you might have a difference of opinion that can get loud.
I think it is very reasonable to have personal answer by devs, personally I think its long past due.
Both sides can be wrong or right, but no amount of either will replace a civilised attitude.
I've been known to rant on announcements of some gameplay decisions... but that is because if affects a broader playerbase (old gamer friends) I was trying to attract to this title, and I expected replied like Scottie just gave us, in fact I deeply desired it. Point by point, face the logic.
However jumping in like this saying you're unhappy it gets made with proper care, out of context and saying hey *I* waited long enough *I* expected you guys to plan in advance... That is not a netiquette issue indeed.
In fact I remember myself thinking outloud when they did the early prototyping, man I hope they finish the map before printing it on a cloth medium.
So if you have really been here for 5 years, then you were here and know each step of he way.
No amount of difference of opinion can make me disregard the effort that has been made.
Separate names with a comma.