Planet

Oh I remember now.. I don't know about Solo's home world but I remember a bit about Corellian battle armor as being worn by a rather fanatical warrior caste or some such. There was a storyline around it in the animated Clone Wars series. Far as I'm aware there is no direct connection to storm trooper armor. I think that was probably designed specifically for the clones.

 

Yeah.. at some point. This will probably be the first I didn't see in the theater. Will probably be happy enough to wait until it's out on blue ray.

 

Even when trying to avoid Star Wars chatter for at least the next week, I find it has infected everyone, everywhere...

Planets! It's a planet for episodes 6 -10.

 

Yeah it wasn't really my intent to go there but I think the OP's question was answered on page 1 and nobody seemed to mind so...

As to the planet in question.. Richard did drop that we might someday be able to visit one of the planets. This was just before the Isle of Storms was introduced so I assume he was referring to that. But given how the blue planet looks he could have just as easily been referring to that. You never know.

 

Just a question for the lore masters here... I saw others suspecting familiar planets/bodies as some of the older game stuff... could this current universe that SotA embodies be one of the many fragments/shards from the shattered Gem of Immortality?

 

If you incorporate UO lore AND accept the idea that New Britannia is in fact the same physical world as Old Britannia.. then there would be New Britannias of all sorts within the shards if you wanted to play it that way.. However, in order to do that you'd have to ignore a lot of the Easter egg lore already in-game that heavily implies that New Britannia is a continuation of the 'real' Britannia outside of the shards.

I personally tend to ignore all lore from UO as there is no way for anyone outside of the shards to possess such knowledge.

 

That is interesting too. I have not really seen the easter eggs or realized it if i had about New Britannia. Not sure about anyone from "outside" shard to have the info, as there were always portals and gateways to and fro. The gem of immortality and its shattering has been a part of the series from U:I to U:IX. I know that some of the lore was written to accommodate many servers at the time of UO, but would it not still be canon? I haven't seen anything retconning it yet. One wiki site wrote something that stuck out about it which made me wonder about it here, which is why I was asking:

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Gem_of_Immortality

"In the intro sequence to Ultima Online, Mondain is shown drawing power from the Gem of Immortality. The Gem appears crystalline in structure with an image of Sosaria embedded in the gem. When the Stranger shattered the Gem, each shard had their own identical image of Sosaria. The shards of the Gem therefore represent a sort of quantum multiverse consisting of many copies of Sosaria, each with their own past, present, and future."

"Shards also have facets which are separate surfaces upon which one may look into the shard. In some cases, the view of the image of Sosaria through different facets may appear identical. However, in other cases the image may appear warped resulting in a twisted-looking world. In Ultima Online, facets are manifest within the shard as different continents accessible only via moongates."

Just curious, as I do not know exactly how much IP on the Ultima Legacy that Electronic Arts holds and what can be done to legally get around those problems, if any, for the lore portions of the game. I was wondering if all this was yet another alternate reality in the multiverse of Ultima.

 

No there weren't. There were moongates within a confined space of each shard. There is no lore supporting travel between shards or inside to outside.

As I've stated.. even if you take UO lore into account.. there's no way for anyone on the outside to know what occurred on the inside of the shards.. or likewise.. there's no way for anyone inside the shards to be aware of what happened outside.

It kinda renders UO lore moot as it has no consequences outside of the shards. The only way UO lore really works at all is the isolation of knowledge between shards and the real world. For example: the number of shards is irrelevant.. there could be thousands even though it's physically unlikely because those on the inside believe they are the real version of the universe and it's just them.

Legally we have to claim it's a completely separate IP and we can't use certain characters etc.. but Portalarium has gone through great lengths to imply it's the same world. Fairly blatantly in some cases if you ask me, but you really have to be aware of the source of the references to really know what they are. Example: If you've played through Ultima IX you may recognize something about the Obsidian Forge.

 

Are not the Avatars from Earth? They are able to transport there and back.

 

The players in UO were not Avatars.. that was not part of UO lore.. Even the game mechanics in UO didn't suggest this as people died all the time.

Ultima lore suggests also that not all off-worlders need be from Earth. Even SotA lore supports that when we look at the Titans who are from a world other than Earth. If it comes down to what's in the manual or what devs say.. verses what they actually put in the game.. the game wins as far as I'm concerned. And on that note.. Avatars in SotA can't return home. Which is made clear during the course of the quests. The Titans couldn't return home either. So there is no simply able to travel back and forth either in SotA or UO except in the case of a persons individual RP which of course is not canon.

For that matter, THE Avatar wasn't able to travel back and forth at will either. He was sent or summoned in every case. His inability to go home at will comes up several times.. particularly during Ultima VII.

 

True, but Avatars were from Earth and they could still get there and back, regardless of at will, so there was a passage of some sorts. This is why I was wondering if this could be an alternate universe in the many of Ultima.

*edit for clarity* - I meant that at least some Avatars were from Earth, not meaning all. I knew about otherworldy creatures such as Gargoyles, Titans, etc also gained passage.

 

I was also wondering about the Cataclysm, since its now about 540 years after the even with the current calendar and the start was around Aug 1997 in Earth time... though the gem was smashed at the end of Ultima 1 (still don't know the time passage between 1 and UO), I was wondering if that sundering could in fact be the cataclysm or if the cataclysm couldnt be an overtime event that was around U:1 to UO time.

 

Gargoyles technically were in the Underworld.. which is to say.. underground.

Again there is no lore or other indication that travel between shards, or between shards and the real universe was ever possible. Each shard was completely self contained.

Short answer.. no. The events of all shards split from the real universe at the moment the gem was shattered. That was part of the UO lore.. where as SotA has many references from the Ultimas.. but not UO.

The timeline of pre-Ultima I until now in SotA is roughly about 1700 years. The Cataclysm occurred during the last celestial alignment. We know this from the current sky.. the orbits of the planets etc.. if you do the math the alignment was at midnight, Jan 1st, year 0. Prior to this, these alignments occurred every 800 years (the previous was during the Black Gate.. Ultima VII). The rest was put together piecemeal by Ultima fans based on game documentation and events so that 1700 is a rough guestiment but shouldn't be too far off. But the point is.. the cataclysm occurred more than 1,000 years after the events of U1.

There is dialogue in SotA to support this..

Spoiler

There is pre-cataclysm historian who specifically asks you about Mondain and the Gem of Immortality, Minax and Exodus.. though not by name.. the Gem itself is specifically mentioned.

 

Gargoyles came from another world. They had settlements within the Ultima realms.

As for no indication, there were mentions of Avatars in UO, therefore, they came from elsewhere, especially the main Avatar, Lord British of Earth, right?

 

As far as I'm aware.. there word "Avatar" is not used anywhere in UO. Nor should it have been as the title appears in the real universe in Ultima IV.. well after the shattering of the gem.. and I would stress that at the time.. the word Avatar had absolutely nothing to do with being some another world.. and everything to do with whether or not one completed the Quest of the Avatar that Lord British put out. It could have been anyone, from anywhere. Including a farmer from Paws.

I don't think Lord British in UO made such a quest, and even if he did there's no one from UO to complete it. The title of Avatar has presumably morphed over the course of several generation after Ultima IX into what it means in SotA. So even mention of Lord British in UO is not mention of Avatars.. the current SotA definition doesn't apply. As such there would not be mention of "Avatars" in UO, the current definition did not exist to be mentioned.

Reference?

 

The Avatar was definitely referred to in UO and talked about. Even had a museum dedicated to the Avatar and the companions. I believe in-game non-player written books may have referenced him as well. The Avatar was the embodiment of the Virtues. I believe the references are to "the Avatar" and Lord British. Lord British being acknowledged as an Avatar himself. So it was certainly around then. And the point being that these beings came from elsewhere outside the fractured multiverse (that was in/part of the Gem of Immortality).

As for the gargoyles and being offshoots/offspring of real demons... the real demons are said to have come from other worlds as well. Maybe it was inferred?

 

The Avatar and his companions did not exist in the Shards.. because they did not exist as such at the time the gem was shattered in Ultima I. They came in the real universe in Ultima IV.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Ultima IX?

Again, not possible. The SotA definition of Avatar did not exist during UO.

Lord British was in the world at the time the gem was shattered.. and so a copy of him existed inside each shard. He never entered or left after the fact. Those are merely copies of the original.

The basic lore is people mistook gargoyles for daemons. By the time of Ultima VI this was proven to be false. Daemons are inter-dimensional.. gargoyles are simply ugly and look evil. Honest mistake.

 

The Avatar was most certainly inside UO. The Avatar was talked about throughout the game of UO. This is not about the SotA definitions of "Avatar". I was referring to Avatar references in general.

Where do you see that due to the shattering of the gem of immortality there were no ways in or out of these shards?

The mistake due to similarity in calling gargoyles "demons" is one thing... but there were actual demons and races of demons. It is said gargoyles are offshoots of these demons. Demons came form other worlds & realms, therefore the gargoyles could come from other worlds as well.

 

You were speaking of Avatars in plural and of Lord British being one. I played UO for the first few years including for awhile after Richard left EA. There was no Avatar in UO. If EA did something screwy later then they're in conflict.

Again.. UO's history split from reality at the end of Ultima I. The Avatar didn't exist until Ultima IV. It isn't possible. The events in the Ultimas after Ultima I did not occur within the shards. That includes The Avatar.

The absence of any official lore stating that it was ever possible. Though the fact the gem was shattered is not relevant to this. You can think of the worlds inside the shards as simulations rather than actual worlds.

Reference?

Where? There is no Ultima lore that says this.

You could make an argument that could technically be true without tying them to Daemons. For that matter, you could make that argument of humans in Old Sosaria. Since first known event in Sosaria history is Zog casting the Armageddon spell and wiping out the whole world (presumably). There is supposedly an unknown history preceding that event. So where did the humans come from? But as there's no lore to support that we can't say that's what happened. All we have is a theory that happens to fit.

If there is official lore specifically stating that gargoyles are literally an offshoot of daemons.. then there exists a reference. Yes? I would be much obliged if you could provide it so I can correct my understanding. If there is no reference my position stands.

 

You keep saying that the "Avatar" didnt exist in UO because the concept wasnt until Ultima IV... that is most likely wrong. I was looking at the wiki that said it. Ultima IV was released in 1985.... 12 years before Ultima Online. There most definitely was a concept of an "Avatar" of the virtues at that time (of Ultima Online). I played from August 1997 on Chessie off and on until a little after the High Seas expansion. There was quite a lot of in depth searching of lore and meaning in the game prior to The Second Age with all the odd mysteries around, whether they were unfinished, red herrings, or still hadn't unlocked their mysteries (like lich maze in Hidden Valley by Trinsic, Hedge Maze, Virtue Shrines and saying things like "om om om", etc). Considering they had things in game acknowledging the Avatar, I don't see why you disbelieve it. There are plenty of lore & wiki sites if you want to look up more on these things. I know that doesnt make them all right, case in point about that "Avatar" not being in UO (1997) because he didnt appear until U:IV (1985).

(The Avatar concept and his symbol are even in the into video to UO 1997)


If there is great magic and the power to have multiple realities from one powerful artifact (Gem of Immortality) and other magics that can grab and transport beings between worlds/dimensions, then surely there is still some way to do that. Regardless, there are multiple worlds and realities and as per the games/books, etc there is transportation between them. You say there is not simply because you have not seen anything saying so. I can use your same retorts and say "where is your proof?" and ask for references.

The point of all of this was from someone mentioning that one of the planets looked like Earth. With the way the fragments of the Gem of Immortality twists things, I was simply wondering if the SotA Universe could simply be an alternate reality and not the main one, which is why there is so many differences (even though we all know some of it is probably for getting around any copyrights).

(EDIT - I knew I saw books in game on the Avatar... here is proof not only was the Avatar mentioned in UO, but the old lore/history of other games was in there too... check out the books)
http://uo2.stratics.com/lore-and-history/

Gargoyles (Other World):
"The Codex

The Codex is a powerful artifact in Ultima, which originates from the Vortex, a great maelstrom that rests at the center of the Void. The gargoyle seer Naxatilor removed it from the Vortex using the eight Moonstones, the Vortex Cube, and the twin Lenses. The removal of the Codex created a karmic imbalance that resulted in great prosperity in the Gargoyle world, and the Age of Darkness in Sosaria. When the Avatar removed it from the Gargoyle shrine deep in the Abyss, the effect backlashed, leading eventually to the decay and destruction of the gargoyle’s world and the Underworld. Eventually the Avatar returned the Codex to its rightful place in the Vortex, restoring balance.

The Codex is clearly powerful, and not just ‘a book’. (In fact, it is likely that it simply takes the form of whatever the user sees as a source of knowledge. To the Gargoyles it was likely a stone tablet with carved lettering that changed, to a modern who wasn’t the Avatar it would appear to be a computer system or something else.) My theory runs as this:

It is highly improbable that the Codex could be ‘copied’ within the Gem of Immortality. Thus, its existence in UO is highly unlikely.

While some would feel this is a disappointment, it clearly sets UO apart from Ultima Prime, and saves the Developers considerable problems. Aside from the fact that the Codex would have ALL answers, something hard to deliver on, it’s removal would also precipitate trouble with gargoyles, something that is far beyond the scope of the game at this time. (It is very likely the gargoyle’s world was cloned with Britannia, and highly likely it still exists, in a possibly more stable state. This would certainly do well for future expansions.)"

Considered Canon:
http://uo2.stratics.com/lore-and-history/historical-background-of-the-shattered-worlds/

However, reading over it I did find mention saying the shards were "closed worlds" that people could not enter or leave. Though, depending on interpretation, does that just mean humans, npcs, beings in general, players (from hopping to other shards), etc. Oh and the main universe is called Ultima Prime. The events in the first 6 Ultima games have taken place prior to UO's start (set 300 years after the shattering of the Gem of Immortality) and the lore is in game.. so there had to have been some way for those events and their details to make their way into the shard worlds.