Plate + Shield together is just bad. Real bad...

The entire concept of wearing plate and a shield together causing a large amount of fizzle seems very fair, reasonable, and makes plenty of sense. That being said, this enormous amount of fizzle is a MAJOR sacrifice in this game. It makes it difficult to patch up the holes in your build and even harder to find ways to do reasonable DPS. Again, this seems fair-ish I guess.

The problem is, the defense gained from plate + shield combo is NOT an even trade-off. Players who choose to go this route are sacrificing pretty much all build utility and 75% of their DPS in order to gain nearly nothing in return. And what little is gained ends up amounting to literally nothing.

What's worse, is that due to the build being so restrictive because of the fizzle rate, it actually ends up taking MORE damage throughout the fight! Taking 30-40% less damage is not helpful if the fight is going to take 200-300% longer.

Ultimately, you are better off dropping the shield and just using a two-hander -- the defenses gained from a shield and the skills obtained simply are not worth the sacrifices being made.

 

I believe the shield is not working properly yet, from what I can tell using it the last 2 wipes. A block rarely ever happens, arrows fly right through, etc. I hope it is just not being implemented correctly yet. (please, please, just be a placeholder!)

 

Unless all you're trying to do is survive an onslaught.

 

I definitely know what you mean; I love shields, always have, but this game it just does not do justice to them at all. The skills are "okay" in design/theory in my opinion but the effectiveness just isn't there. I think the fizzle chance thing is definitely a good thing for balance, but people who dedicate to a shield should be compensated for it better.

~Woden

 

i promise you, they dont really survive any better. in fact, i am spec'd out for shields right now and find that removing the shield and switching to a claymore is a much more effective way to hunt and i do not lose anything noticeable from removing my shield.

they simply are completely out of balance with other viable play-styles.

 

The dont use a shield. Easy fix!

 

I do believe you're missing the point. While the plate/shield combo may not be the best for fighting, it is certainly fit for running a gauntlet.

 

"fix"? i do not think this means what you think it means...

thats my point. it really isnt. i mean, if you want to jsut run for your life, sure. i suppose if you do not stop to fight and you just sprint thru an area i guess a shield can be nice. but if you are stopping to fight at all, you are better without a shield. you will take MORE damage in a fight if u are using one.

 

@Alcedes Exactly right. But I, as more of a crafter and gatherer would wear it to survive long enough for my support to get rid of the baddies.

 

Personally, I've found Dodge (the active ability) and light armor Sprint to be vastly more effective than plate armor, in R29, for "running a gauntlet"

 

Shields DO work atm.

However, the resist system is due an upcoming rework which may address some of the concerns here.

I for one do not want fizzling to be reduced for this playstyle though I would not be surprised if other balancing were needed with it.

 

i definitely agree with the fizzle rate. it is fair and makes perfect sense as i mentioned in the OP. but that fizzle rate is a major cost to pay for a shield. and that is fine. but the benefit gained from taht shield is my issue. hopefully you are right and the rework on damage resist will address my concerns.

well, i havent noticed the 100% fizzle rate on tier 1 and 2 skills but tier 3 and 4 the fizzle rate is often 100% however, i do not think that is a bug. i think that is intended.

 

i am wearing a "larger" shield with a 10% fizzle rate on it. i do not seem to be gaining 100% fizzle rate from it at all.

 

This is one of the reasons that i pushed for expanding the ability to block certain types of spells (which got implemented in r29)

One other thing to consider is that levels mitigate fizzle issues. Leveling individual spells and the focus skill both help in ways that may open up spells that plate wearers might not use without.

For anyone discussing the effectiveness of shields, I would strongly advocate always using the "Deflect" skill which provides the largest defensive bonuses.

Part of the issue also could be contributed to one-handed weapons themselves. I personally stopped using shields because i found one-handed weapons to be significantly handicapped. I have a very large thread on the subject that you can find here: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-case-against-one-handed-weapons.48726/

 

From what I've seen in the SCA and larps, shield + sword absolutely mops the floor over no shield.

In SotA, plate + shield is pretty terrible.

It should go:

Two weapons - Great speed and great DPS, but need additional skills in the tree to make it feasible
Two-handed weapon - Good DPS and decent range, but slow
One handed weapon - Moderate DPS, moderate range, moderate speed
Polearm - Great range, moderate DPS, slow speed

A true DPS will likely never go for the single one handed weapon then. But it makes sense for a tank. But the problem is that plate + shield isn't even working well for a tank right now.

 

lol, truth be told, a shielded mage is a far better tank than a plate+shield melee. hehehe (totally wish i was exaggerating..but im not! LOL)

 

The issue is not really isolated to Plate + Shield. I'm a chain user myself(so i don't fizzle too badly) and i still don't use shields because the tradeoffs are just so bad.

I don't think the devs wan't to play with variable rate attackspeed - but they still need to make 1-handed melee better. I also think most of the skills in the shield tree that aren't Deflect/passives are not particularly great.

Exact same conclusion i came to in the thread i linked to earlier in this thread.

 

The active skills seem like a real waste compared to the opportunity cost of not attacking when playing solo. If I was a group tank, maybe they'd be more worthwhile. I only use the passive skills in the shield tree, but I still feel like it is a really weak build compared to others. And not being able to use magic at all destroys the build.

I get that fizzle chance improves if you go down the focus tree, and as you level up a magic skill, but it is really hard to improve it when you can't cast it to use it.

I think magic schools should vary in how much armor affects them. Maybe a school like earth or life can be used by a cleric/paladin type in armor, but death and wind magic are more suited to robes.

 

Again... deflect is an amazing defensive active that has no fizzle rate attached (though you need to level it to increase the duration).

While less ideal, training is separate gear is an option for getting a functional skill. I do get what you mean though.

As for the subject of spell casting, I think that limits on the tier of spells is more important than trees, though possibly specifically lowering the fizzle rate on a spells that have a melee-ish feel to them(Like Shield of Crystal for example). Additionally some more signature mage spells could have higher fizzle rates than generally associated with their tier (but not high enough to cause issues for mages)